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MatthewG.

(362 posts)
3. My father was Israeli Air Force and I criticize Israel all the time, as does he.
Thu May 13, 2021, 09:03 AM
May 2021

Last edited Thu May 13, 2021, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

My grandparents moved from the Soviet Union to Israel in 1950, back in those days when the two were, while not exactly allies, on relatively decent terms (and back when the American Government still practiced an even-handed approach to the conflict.)

My father served in Israel’s Air Force, as required, before moving to the United States.

I criticize Israel all the time, as does he. There’s a lot to criticize; the treatment of Palestinians has historically been deplorable and continues to be (yes, I think it’s an apartheid state, at least outside of the green line.) There’s also been an import of some of the uglier aspects of American-style conservatism combined with demographic shifts that favor religious orthodoxy, and while of course there are many decent and kind Orthodox Jews, there are also many who subscribe to ugly fundamentalist strains of Judaism.

Nations are not usually moral actors. They’re self-interested entities and governments should normally be viewed with suspicion. Israel’s government is in a somewhat fraught position, despite its relative regional strength, because of the widespread hostilities to its very existence - and while that may make its cruel treatment of Palestinians somewhat understandable, that doesn’t make it forgivable.

The only caveat I’d add is that as progressives we should resist the temptation to ascribe negative stereotypes to Jews generally; there’s been a woeful increase of anti-Semitism on the internet (at times, I can barely say anything about the Middle East conflict without having someone hurl an ethnic slur at me) which I suspect has left many Jews more reticent to criticize Israel than ever, and may have rendered many Gentiles reticent to speak on the subject at all.

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Criticism of Israel seems off limits [View all] USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 OP
I agree snowybirdie May 2021 #1
Yep USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 #2
My father was Israeli Air Force and I criticize Israel all the time, as does he. MatthewG. May 2021 #3
Yes USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 #5
Netanyahu is the major problem right now. roamer65 May 2021 #18
A few things Darwins_Retriever May 2021 #4
There is the issue of Israel continuing to kick Palestinians out of their homes JI7 May 2021 #7
Some responses Goodheart May 2021 #8
After the Holocaust, Jewish people needed a homeland. Elessar Zappa May 2021 #11
Says who? Goodheart May 2021 #12
Most of Alabama thinks Trump is a great guy. PCIntern May 2021 #20
We live on stolen land too. onenote May 2021 #22
Are we still evicting Native Americans from their homes? Crunchy Frog May 2021 #31
from 1492 treestar May 2021 #37
Absolutely not. Goodheart May 2021 #39
Jews are indigenous to Israel, Judea and Samaria. Mosby May 2021 #45
That is so incorrect. Goodheart May 2021 #46
And what about the Palestinians' homeland? IL Dem May 2021 #25
It's not off limits but the problem is a lot of it IS Anti semitic JI7 May 2021 #6
That's the truth malaise May 2021 #9
Accusations of anti-Semitism is an easy way to marginalize those whose critique of Israel is sharp. Bok_Tukalo May 2021 #10
I consider myself anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic. Goodheart May 2021 #13
There is a lot of navel gazing on all sides of this in the US. RegularJam May 2021 #14
Criticize Israel you are anti-semitic, criticize Palestinians you are a pro-apartheid fascist JCMach1 May 2021 #15
Depends what the criticism is and whether it's couched in ugly aspersions, however subtle. JudyM May 2021 #16
Sad, but true...nt Wounded Bear May 2021 #17
I agree with you on this one. maxsolomon May 2021 #19
The vast number of Jews with whom PCIntern May 2021 #21
+1 onenote May 2021 #23
Yeah USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 #24
That's why it stood out for me. maxsolomon May 2021 #26
There is not necessarily power in numbers but there is power in MONEY! nt joetheman May 2021 #41
My right wing in-laws back Israel mountain grammy May 2021 #27
Most Palestinians have Jordanian passports. murielm99 May 2021 #28
Criticizing them for defending themselves against genocidal totalitarian terrorists ... Fozzledick May 2021 #29
I haven't seen any criticism like what you describe USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 #30
Post removed Post removed May 2021 #32
I see what I see USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 #35
How can an oppressed people be "totalitarian"? Goodheart May 2021 #40
Hamas rules Gaza with a dictatorial hand hack89 May 2021 #43
Criticize Israel's hard right, and others who go along with them. Like here, Hortensis May 2021 #33
I see criticism of Israel all the time by people that claim they're not allowed to criticize Israel mathematic May 2021 #34
Ilhan Omar got got herself in a pile of trouble for basically asking the same thing. Crunchy Frog May 2021 #36
I see USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 #38
Let's look at this one. Mosby May 2021 #42
Good points, but that doesn't make her anti-Semitic or pro-terrorist USAFRetired_Liberal May 2021 #44
*LOCKING* Spazito May 2021 #47
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