Which is worse: H1B Visa Holders or Illegal Immigrants.

[pampango]

78. Three points. 1. At the same time progressive Europeans were building their progressive societies

after WWII, they were insuring freedom of movement between countries as well. They viewed, and still do, that freedom of movement is a part of a progressive continent.

2. Living standards are not as uniform in Europe as you might believe. Per capita income in Norway is $53,000, Germany $45,000, but in Poland it is $20,000, Bulgaria $13,500 and Latvia $11,000. (The US' per capita income is $47,000 and Mexico's is $16,000.)

3. I did not say that freedom of movement causes better conditions for workers. I said ""people who work for a living" do a lot better in Europe with its freedom of movement than they do here with our jealously-guarded borders."

In fact "people who work for a living" do a lot better in Europe than they do here. And there is freedom of movement there and jealously-guarded borders here. So my statement is correct. There may not be a direct relationship between progressive economic policies and freedom of movement. It may just be a coincidence, but progressives there apparently don't think so, because they don't want to give up either.

You said workers do better due to "economic policies which favor the worker." I agree with you. My point was that when progressives there created those economic policies they also created the freedom of movement that few Europeans (other than a few on the far right) want to do away with today.

The two - progressive economic policies and freedom of movement between countries - coexist nicely in Europe. Neither, of course - progressive economic policies or freedom of movement between countries - exists in the US. At the very least one can't say that freedom of movement between countries dooms "people who work for a living" to a poor life.