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NNadir

(38,492 posts)
57. You have correctly touched on nuclear energy's most important drawback.
Tue Jun 29, 2021, 07:04 PM
Jun 2021

Most pressurized water and boiling water reactors, which dominate the world's current nuclear fleet operate at low thermal efficiency, Rankine efficiency, roughly in the neighborhood of 33%. This means that 67% of the primary energy is rejected to the environment for these reactors. This is not a problem generally in winter (when in fact the efficiency is slightly higher because of the Carnot relation), but it is a serious problem in summer, particularly in the era of climate change.

The work that is extracted from a heat engine is called the "exergy." The second law of thermodynamics precludes the exergy from ever reaching 100% of the primary energy expended, but one can increase the exergy by various procedures to much higher percentages than is generally observed in nuclear plants built on 1970's technology. The efficiency is a function of the difference between the heat sink and the heat source.

This problem can be solved - although it may seem counterintuitive - by raising the temperature at which reactors operate - a topic that is the subject of much discussion in nuclear engineering circles.

Most dangerous fossil fuel plants have efficiencies in the same neighborhood of the majority of the existing nuclear fleet. However, in the last century, advances in materials science allowed for the development of "superalloys" and thermal barrier coatings, generally ceramics. These have allowed more efficient dangerous natural gas plants to be built, so called "combined cycle" plants. Some of these operate at thermodynamic efficiencies close to 60%.

My approach to thermodynamically efficient nuclear plants would be this: A Brayton cycle using air as the working fluid, coupled to sulfur iodine thermochemical cycle, coupled to a cycle known at the Allam cycle, although in my thinking one might call it a "reverse Allam cycle" for the capture of carbon dioxide, coupled to a steam (Rankine) cycle, with the cooling coming from the preheat of air for the first (Brayton) cycle. My idea - based on certain chemical considerations - would be for the Brayton cycle to operate at temperatures in the neighborhood of 1500C.

It certainly seems possible to raise the overall thermodynamic efficiency to the realm of 70% or even higher, by such a scheme.

This type of scheme is known as a "heat network," and it is the best idea in energy.

The anti-nuke moron Amory Lovins sold the world a bill of goods saying that the purpose of efficiency is to reduce the use of energy. He made this statement as a result of his poor education and his lack of familiarity with Jevon's paradox.

I, by contrast, embrace Jevon's paradox. For me the purpose of efficiency is not to reduce energy use but rather to extend it to those who lack it, the number of such people being unimaginably and unacceptably large.

Unlike what seems to be the case with the obscene Lovins in his bourgeois aerie in Snowmass, I actually think poor people matter.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Sorry, Jennifer. roamer65 Jun 2021 #1
I wonder if they'll understand weeks of temperatures over 100F. NNadir Jun 2021 #3
+1000! Nt USALiberal Jun 2021 #30
That's exactly right. BlueLucy Jun 2021 #41
Good! Music Man Jun 2021 #2
Never mind Chernobyl, Fukushima Dai'ichi and Three Mile Island, eh? roamer65 Jun 2021 #4
Go look up how many people died in each of those accidents. Music Man Jun 2021 #5
Never mind the 70 million people who died from air pollution since Fukushima while... NNadir Jun 2021 #13
If I was big oil nuke energy would be the enemy. I would put good money on it they're behind ... uponit7771 Jun 2021 #16
+1 Klaralven Jun 2021 #21
It's obvious you have done research on this! Nt USALiberal Jun 2021 #31
There is a huge problem with solar panels jmowreader Jul 2021 #73
I totally agree. GulfCoast66 Jun 2021 #6
I don't support wind and solar, but I'll take what I can. NNadir Jun 2021 #7
Why against wind and solar? Nt USALiberal Jun 2021 #32
The short life span, the destruction of pristine wilderness, the entrenchment of dangerous... NNadir Jun 2021 #56
I support all three. Happy Hoosier Jun 2021 #54
Modern designs like the "modular" reactor, are nothing like reactors of old. PSPS Jun 2021 #8
Nevertheless, the "old" reactors, built on 1950's through 1970's technology... NNadir Jun 2021 #9
K&R, its 2021 forget curing cancer if we can't make nuclear safe. 40 years ago maybe things were uponit7771 Jun 2021 #10
It is unrealistic to demand that they be "safer." NNadir Jun 2021 #11
Safer doesn't have to be less volatile. They can be standardized, modular, smaller while giving out uponit7771 Jun 2021 #12
I'm not sure that I agree with "standardization." NNadir Jun 2021 #18
Standardization to bring down price per GWH which is reason we don't have a higher portion of ... uponit7771 Jun 2021 #34
The capital cost of nuclear plants represent a gift to future generations. NNadir Jun 2021 #35
The capital cost of nuclear plants represent a gift to future generations. NNadir Jun 2021 #36
Except WHITT Jun 2021 #14
The waste is now recyclable and nuke power is RELATIVELY carbon free. 40 years ago safety was uponit7771 Jun 2021 #15
Nope WHITT Jun 2021 #17
IPCC disagrees ... Hugh_Lebowski Jun 2021 #19
But WHITT Jun 2021 #37
Full lifecycle it's the lowest there is ... Hugh_Lebowski Jun 2021 #45
They're Undercounting WHITT Jun 2021 #60
Says you ... Hugh_Lebowski Jun 2021 #63
I Just Laid It Out For You WHITT Jun 2021 #66
That's what I thought ... you have words but you don't have statistics Hugh_Lebowski Jun 2021 #68
You make it sound like the total amount of carbon put out as about the same. StevieM Jun 2021 #46
Lol, nice try!?nt USALiberal Jun 2021 #51
Jobs, Jobs, Jobs. DiamondShark Jun 2021 #58
Actually WHITT Jun 2021 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author DiamondShark Jul 2021 #72
Neither of those are fact based, I think its "hype" to have mRNA vaccines but they work and cancer uponit7771 Jun 2021 #25
You do realize, don't you that there are literally thousands of papers... NNadir Jun 2021 #28
Nuclear energy Elessar Zappa Jun 2021 #29
You are obviously uninformed on this! Nt USALiberal Jun 2021 #33
Actually, the most expensive form of energy is dangerous fossil fuels, by orders of magnitude. NNadir Jun 2021 #20
+1, "climate change is very, very, very expensive..." uponit7771 Jun 2021 #27
Oops WHITT Jun 2021 #39
Comparable to what? NNadir Jun 2021 #42
The Average Cost WHITT Jun 2021 #62
Where's your proof? Everyone supposed to just 'take your word'? nt Hugh_Lebowski Jun 2021 #65
Eh WHITT Jun 2021 #67
I always say, if one doesn't know what one is talking about, make stuff up. NNadir Jun 2021 #71
Nuclear cost John ONeill Jun 2021 #38
Let's get going with it then. K and R. oasis Jun 2021 #22
First we have to rebuild some steel mills that can forge the components Klaralven Jun 2021 #23
It wouldn't bother me if they were made in South Korea. hunter Jun 2021 #53
Gen IV molten salt reactors should at the very least be a part of the discussion. retread Jun 2021 #24
So glad she said it. Elessar Zappa Jun 2021 #26
We have been ten years away from a working fusion reactor edhopper Jun 2021 #40
The human race has worked itself into a corner... hunter Jun 2021 #43
Why, thank you... NNadir Jun 2021 #59
"Yes, but..." PETRUS Jun 2021 #44
The environmental superiority of nuclear energy is independent... NNadir Jun 2021 #47
I agree. harumph Jun 2021 #49
You have correctly touched on nuclear energy's most important drawback. NNadir Jun 2021 #57
Your ideas about the environmental superiority of nuclear power Ron Green Jun 2021 #50
Not a band-aid. More like first aid for a sucking chest wound. hunter Jun 2021 #70
Wouldn't replacing coal plants with nuclear plants be part of that "growth?" hunter Jun 2021 #52
Those are sensible thoughts and questions! PETRUS Jun 2021 #55
My uncle worked on some of the early Westinghouse reactors. harumph Jun 2021 #48
Agree. jeffreyi Jun 2021 #64
I highly recommend Bill Gates new book WarGamer Jun 2021 #69
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