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DFW

(60,423 posts)
29. I live in Europe, so I know different people
Mon Jul 19, 2021, 09:38 AM
Jul 2021

Last edited Mon Jul 19, 2021, 10:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Many of my friends are from the former Warsaw Pact countries, and many of those are from the "realexistierender Sozialismus (true existing socialism) " of East Germany. None of them wants to return to their socialist past.

Theirs is not a monolithic point of view, however. It should be noted that there IS a small party in Germany, where I live, that advocates a return to socialism: Die Linken, or "The Leftists." Some of their leaders used to be up and coming members of the old East German elite. They enjoyed comfortable bourgeois lifestyles and travel privileges--something denied to their population. Thus was the true existing socialism, and that is why it was rejected--not by the 1% who lived comfortably and could travel when and where they wanted, but by the 99% who risked jail or death if they demanded it for themselves.

It should also be noted that not everyone adjusted immediately to their new lives. An East German family taking their first vacation in the west, in one famous recorded incident, asked at the hotel reception, for example, when breakfast was. They were told from 7:AM to 10:00 AM. They said, OK, but when was THEIR breakfast? The reception repeated between 7 and 10. Neither understood the other's problem. In the socialist East, you were assigned the exact hour at which you were to take your breakfast. Individuals making decisions for themselves was a concept that made the rulers nervous. In the west, you went to breakfast when you were hungry. In the East, public gatherings at cafés and restaurants of more than four people were forbidden (ideas and other dangerous things like that might get discussed). In the west, it was limited to the number of chairs you could borrow and squeeze in at a table.

The argument can easily be made that all that was never what socialism is about. The argument can also be made that when it is imposed, that is what socialism ultimately always devolves into. I've seen it, with its goose-stepping soldiers and useless propaganda banners all over the capital city. There is a reason that the people I know who grew up there don't want it any more. Those who were part of their privileged ruling elites obviously see things differently.

*edited for clarity-I just had breakfast (when I wanted )

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People know I hate capitalism [View all] I_UndergroundPanther Jul 2021 OP
I totally want to wait for hours in lines outside in cold winter months Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2021 #1
Yep! Sounds wonderful. Lol jimfields33 Jul 2021 #2
I guess you like the idea I_UndergroundPanther Jul 2021 #3
I guess you like the idea ... mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2021 #5
We discussed this in an earlier thread. Unregulated capitalism... brush Jul 2021 #16
agreed on all counts, capitalism works as an economic engine - but needs brakes and a steering too Amishman Jul 2021 #39
People in China aren't worked to death? alphafemale Jul 2021 #27
Meh. hunter Jul 2021 #9
I'm with you. Living in a cave is vastly underrated. NT mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2021 #12
I've lived in some very fine caves. hunter Jul 2021 #14
When it comes to future societies, I find Babylon 5 far more plausible* than Star Trek. Dial H For Hero Jul 2021 #21
No they did not "thrive". former9thward Jul 2021 #43
It's a combo problem Capitalism and representative democracy RANDYWILDMAN Jul 2021 #4
You might set an example and not use a computer network anymore, as both mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2021 #6
I'd prefer a proper mix of capitalism, socialism, and democracy. GoodRaisin Jul 2021 #7
Exactly. Countries like Denmark seem to have a decent mix. Hoyt Jul 2021 #8
+1 crickets Jul 2021 #11
I agree! lunatica Jul 2021 #41
I'm Faux pas Jul 2021 #10
Capitalism needs to be regulated. Churches need to be taxed... Wounded Bear Jul 2021 #13
Yes Please! Faux pas Jul 2021 #32
Where is this nirvana where goods are allocated without markets ? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2021 #40
What should we have instead of capitalism? marie999 Jul 2021 #15
Yep, that's the question that's never answered because... brush Jul 2021 #19
I didn't know anything about you. 11 Bravo Jul 2021 #17
None of us would want to live in 1890. cachukis Jul 2021 #18
You posted about going to Disney earlier. Treefrog Jul 2021 #20
Stupid replies I_UndergroundPanther Jul 2021 #22
"Ogliarchy?" Treefrog Jul 2021 #25
What part of that do you not get?? USALiberal Jul 2021 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Jul 2021 #33
There are more examples, but... Treefrog Jul 2021 #34
Well Regulated Capitalism is the best system that has been proven JI7 Jul 2021 #23
Well, I hate hunting and gathering. People know this about me. betsuni Jul 2021 #24
And that's why some "socialism" is a good idea mvd Jul 2021 #26
Yawn. NurseJackie Jul 2021 #28
I live in Europe, so I know different people DFW Jul 2021 #29
In a similar way capitalism evolves into fascism. hunter Jul 2021 #42
Agreed mvd Jul 2021 #44
Do you have an alternative? brooklynite Jul 2021 #30
Any modern political and economic system evolves into a hierarchy DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2021 #31
Exactly. Happy Hoosier Jul 2021 #36
So let's hear you plan, and show the evidence it will work. Happy Hoosier Jul 2021 #35
Try and get along without capitalism, if you think capitalism is bad Raine Jul 2021 #38
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