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Celerity

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76. The only truly reliable data for ALL breakthrough infections of any sort in a group are the vax

Mon Aug 2, 2021, 01:11 PM

Aug 2021

Last edited Mon Aug 2, 2021, 06:52 PM - Edit history (2)

long terms studies and trials.

Obviously there are studies (the infamous Israeli one for a perfect example) that show much lower effective rates (and also a decrease in effectiveness as time flows by) but I am going to focus on the highest, best results out there to avoid any perceived Cassandra-like behaviour emanating from my posts.

It is just ludicrous to say that out of 1,300 fully vaxxed people, ONE will have a breakthrough infection of any sort, yet here we are, with multiple posters on here claiming this utter bollocks.

NO vaccine firm has ever remotely claimed 99.9+% efficacy against infection. The highest of any widely available vax was 95% clinical trial efficacy (and 90% real world effectiveness) with Pfizer against the origin strain.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/delta-variant-what-we-know-about-the-efficacy-of-covid-vaccines/2427527/

Another study, cited by Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, suggests that

the Pfizer vaccine is approximately

80% effective against preventing infection from Delta

88% effective at preventing symptomatic disease and

96% effective at preventing hospitalizations caused by the virus

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2021/delta-coronavirus-variant.html

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Lying by Omission about Break-Thru Covid-19 Infections? [View all] bluewater Aug 2021 OP

.77% or .077 chance Botany Aug 2021 #1

They aren't lying. They are providing data. Phoenix61 Aug 2021 #2

Pay Walled Link and some sources are quoting old data, not current trends bluewater Aug 2021 #3

New York State is still tracking all breakthrough cases Phoenix61 Aug 2021 #8

Missing my point that news sources are quoting older data stlll? bluewater Aug 2021 #15

I found this Phoenix61 Aug 2021 #23

Thanks for the links to current data supporting my point in the OP bluewater Aug 2021 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author Tomconroy Aug 2021 #55

Exactly. I find the OP as offensive/seemingly willfully clueless as the accusations from other side hlthe2b Aug 2021 #5

100% agree obamanut2012 Aug 2021 #12

They wanted the data for Delta Phoenix61 Aug 2021 #13

" The running totals may make it look better than it really is." EXACTLY! bluewater Aug 2021 #19

Of course you are right. I'd like to see those numbers too. Scrivener7 Aug 2021 #67

Yup - and there is a lot of that sensationalizing around here. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #22

+1 BannonsLiver Aug 2021 #42

I'm not even sure what you're saying. They're not lying. The vaccine is highly effective. Dream Girl Aug 2021 #4

And it's almost all unvaccinated people going to the hospital and/or dying. Initech Aug 2021 #6

It's simple, quote current data for the Delta Variant, not outdated data bluewater Aug 2021 #7

It's 95% Delta at this point. Does that work for you? Dream Girl Aug 2021 #9

Then why are they quoting statistics using months old data? No need to get personal. bluewater Aug 2021 #16

Who is "they"? Some random person on Twitter? The Tweet is not official just some random Dream Girl Aug 2021 #31

It was AXIOS and an NBC reporter I quoted in my OP post bluewater Aug 2021 #37

Yet you titled your post to imply CDC was "lying by omission." NO, you simply need to be able hlthe2b Aug 2021 #50

Except I never mention the CDC bluewater Aug 2021 #53

Your disingenous explanation without accepting responsibillity & editing your OP to clarify hlthe2b Aug 2021 #54

The personal attacks have been duly noted bluewater Aug 2021 #57

No. I am attacking your posts and questioning your motivation in not correcting erroneous hlthe2b Aug 2021 #59

Any and all baseless assertions aside, I think the thread speaks for itself. bluewater Aug 2021 #61

And more have seen your baseless attacks on CDC that only helps the RW destroy confidence in hlthe2b Aug 2021 #62

11 heartwarming DU recs so far.... bluewater Aug 2021 #65

Only because they are opting to ignore your accusation toward CDC. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #68

12 heartwarming recs now... bluewater Aug 2021 #71

Oblivious. hlthe2b Aug 2021 #73

As is cowering behind implication. LanternWaste Aug 2021 #123

15 heartwarming recs and counting... bluewater Aug 2021 #124

Wow. He never said a single thing about the CDC. Scrivener7 Aug 2021 #69

If those numbers were 10 times worse than the vaccine was still be great and working as planned uponit7771 Aug 2021 #10

How is this lying??? It's literally accurate data obamanut2012 Aug 2021 #11

The OP statistics are using months old data, not current data. bluewater Aug 2021 #17

You do understand that any one can post anything on social media. I could post year old data Dream Girl Aug 2021 #33

It was AXIOS and an NBC reporter I quoted in my OP post bluewater Aug 2021 #35

these insanely high claims for effectiveness against infection are bullshit, pure and simple Celerity Aug 2021 #14

THANK YOU!!!! bluewater Aug 2021 #18

Passing you my flame shield SheltieLover Aug 2021 #20

lol Thanks bluewater Aug 2021 #24

Yw! SheltieLover Aug 2021 #26

Stay safe! bluewater Aug 2021 #29

You too! SheltieLover Aug 2021 #56

Your question was reasonable Wavelight Aug 2021 #36

Thank you bluewater Aug 2021 #40

It is VERY simple math, the 95% for Pfizer efficacy and 90% effectiveness numbers against infection Celerity Aug 2021 #27

Thanks for pointing out the facts bluewater Aug 2021 #34

It doesn't seem to be helping, I see a lot of doubling down and some ridiculing of other Celerity Aug 2021 #38

The ironic AF thing is that some of this is coming from people who are hardcore about masks! bluewater Aug 2021 #43

Also, over in the UK (I live in Sweden but I am London-raised) they had a very different outcome Celerity Aug 2021 #44

Seems people like to shoot the messenger bluewater Aug 2021 #46

I do not see any good purpose for wilful and vast over-inflation of COVID-prevention numbers. Celerity Aug 2021 #47

I would like to see news sources stressing how much more contagious Delta is bluewater Aug 2021 #49

Since the very beginning, there has been a fairly large Scrivener7 Aug 2021 #64

+1000 bluewater Aug 2021 #66

Lying by omission is going the other way around here. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #21

Agree. On the plus side, the period when alarmed and alarming noise Hortensis Aug 2021 #58

When do they plan to start? lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #60

You don't think the meeting took place or that MSM are Hortensis Aug 2021 #63

I believe the meeting happened, and some are being more responsible. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #70

Sensationalism always. Those who want it will always reward it. nt Hortensis Aug 2021 #74

So we see, here. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #75

Yes. But at least not by most. nt Hortensis Aug 2021 #79

Thank goodness. lagomorph777 Aug 2021 #85

We don't do ourselves any favors by overestimating the effectiveness of the vaccines. dawg Aug 2021 #25

A point well made bluewater Aug 2021 #30

+1 Celerity Aug 2021 #41

The way the data is presented is misleading for sure madville Aug 2021 #32

I don't understand your point TxGuitar Aug 2021 #72

+1 ProfessorGAC Aug 2021 #82

"It's distressing that there are so many here that willfully focus on the negative..." bluewater Aug 2021 #84

The Denominator Keeps Changing ProfessorGAC Aug 2021 #90

"If a state had a 100% vaccination rate, what percent of new cases would be breakthrough?" bluewater Aug 2021 #102

Yes, we know it works great at preventing severe cases of Delta madville Aug 2021 #87

Where does it end? TxGuitar Aug 2021 #91

It doesn't end, vaccine effectiveness also appears to be waning over time madville Aug 2021 #93

I think it equally dishonest when people say even if you are vaccinated you are at any real risk GulfCoast66 Aug 2021 #39

Current data shows the risks are real and increasing, even for us vaccinated bluewater Aug 2021 #45

No, it's not lying, either "on purpose" or by accident. The data is incomplete muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #48

"What we really need is a figure for total breakthrough infections from some time in June." bluewater Aug 2021 #51

They are using the most current data they can - that's the point muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #89

"They are using the most current data they can - that's the point" No, they are not. bluewater Aug 2021 #94

I think you are personally assuming something that no one else does, and which is unrealistic muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #97

Thanks for correcting my math, but my point still stands. bluewater Aug 2021 #105

No, you're still getting it wrong muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #108

No, you are splitting hairs. In fact, you just made my point for me. bluewater Aug 2021 #112

You're assuming that 100% people will get infected in the absence of a vaccine. muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #116

Here's a nice article stating how much more contagious the delta variant is: bluewater Aug 2021 #119

You have not shown the statistics in the OP are "misleading" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #121

Oh but I have. bluewater Aug 2021 #122

The problem is that you are demanding that people only talk about what you want to hear muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #125

Maybe the "problem" is that other people agree with my point in the OP? bluewater Aug 2021 #127

Again, you're blaming an article for not stating what you wanted it to state muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #128

Lack of a substantial reply to previous post noted. bluewater Aug 2021 #129

I did reply to your point muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #131

At least 125,000 could be anything, really. LisaL Aug 2021 #80

No, it's not a bullshit number muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #86

Last I checked we had 50 states. LisaL Aug 2021 #92

Half the states don't appear to be keeping track Tomconroy Aug 2021 #52

The only truly reliable data for ALL breakthrough infections of any sort in a group are the vax Celerity Aug 2021 #76

Bookmarking for future reference bluewater Aug 2021 #78

yes, I bookmarked this thread as I have posted a fair amount of hard data in it Celerity Aug 2021 #81

Statistics aren't my strong point Tomconroy Aug 2021 #95

No, it means if you are exposed to the virus it has an 80% effectiveness Celerity Aug 2021 #96

So if I understand, 20 percent of us vaxed won't get covid, but Tomconroy Aug 2021 #98

No. You are conflating absolute numbers with actual exposure. Celerity Aug 2021 #99

You know, I'm a horse player. I try to roughly figure the odds. Tomconroy Aug 2021 #100

I am not dealing with predictions of actual numbers of breakthrough cases, Celerity Aug 2021 #103

Have to agree with all that. I'm just trying to figure out how to get through the next month. Tomconroy Aug 2021 #104

No, that is not what the 80% effective number means muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #110

No, that is wrong. Sorry. You are now delving into utter randomness as you are not taking into Celerity Aug 2021 #111

No, this is nothing to do with any lab tests muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #114

The vax trial we are in used both lab-grown and then later on, wild strain variants Celerity Aug 2021 #115

The figures you gave are for effectiveness, in the real world muriel_volestrangler Aug 2021 #117

I understand your points Celerity Aug 2021 #120

Yes. LisaL Aug 2021 #77

I think we're in the known unknown category stillcool Aug 2021 #83

Of course they wouldn't. Tomconroy Aug 2021 #88

I read a really helpful article the other day ecstatic Aug 2021 #101

bluewater, I just want to thank you for this post and crickets Aug 2021 #106

Thank you, the news need to both correct and not easily misinterpreted bluewater Aug 2021 #109

The delta variant has shaken up a lot of people bluewater Aug 2021 #118

Correct. Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #107

Thanks for a much clearer summary! bluewater Aug 2021 #113

Yep. LisaL Aug 2021 #126

Data from the recent UK Delta surge show how misleading the 99.99% is bluewater Aug 2021 #130

Yes, it's misleading and some people can't figure out what 99.99 % numbers actually mean. LisaL Aug 2021 #132