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In reply to the discussion: Lying by Omission about Break-Thru Covid-19 Infections? [View all]bluewater
(5,420 posts)119. Here's a nice article stating how much more contagious the delta variant is:
Here's a nice article stating how much more contagious the delta variant is:
Practically speaking
We asked Gounder what this could mean for everyday life: Would an unmasked, unvaccinated person catch the delta variant if they merely walked by someone with the delta variant in the grocery aisle?
"The probability of them catching it is equivalent to what it would have been with the same scenario x 15 minutes early in the pandemic," Gounder told PolitiFact. "That wasnt 100%. This isnt 100%. But 15 minutes then is equivalent to 1 second now."
Its difficult to quantify someones chances of catching COVID-19 in a one-second interaction, Gounder said. Factors include ventilation levels in various indoor settings.
Gounder also pointed to a similar takeaway by Kimberly Prather, an atmospheric chemist at UC San Diego, calling the possibility of fleeting exposure leading to a delta variant infection "certainly possible."
We ran the same grocery store scenario by Prather: Would one second be all it takes for an unmasked and unvaccinated person to catch the delta variant?
"No, that is not the case," Prather said." There are many factors (for each individual) that affect how much it takes for someone to catch delta. For example some people have much stronger immune systems, which will fight off a certain level of virus. Others are more vulnerable."
Prather said her most important message is that if everyone is wearing masks, the chance of infection plummets.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jul/28/how-contagious-delta-variant-it-isnt-easy-quantify/
We asked Gounder what this could mean for everyday life: Would an unmasked, unvaccinated person catch the delta variant if they merely walked by someone with the delta variant in the grocery aisle?
"The probability of them catching it is equivalent to what it would have been with the same scenario x 15 minutes early in the pandemic," Gounder told PolitiFact. "That wasnt 100%. This isnt 100%. But 15 minutes then is equivalent to 1 second now."
Its difficult to quantify someones chances of catching COVID-19 in a one-second interaction, Gounder said. Factors include ventilation levels in various indoor settings.
Gounder also pointed to a similar takeaway by Kimberly Prather, an atmospheric chemist at UC San Diego, calling the possibility of fleeting exposure leading to a delta variant infection "certainly possible."
We ran the same grocery store scenario by Prather: Would one second be all it takes for an unmasked and unvaccinated person to catch the delta variant?
"No, that is not the case," Prather said." There are many factors (for each individual) that affect how much it takes for someone to catch delta. For example some people have much stronger immune systems, which will fight off a certain level of virus. Others are more vulnerable."
Prather said her most important message is that if everyone is wearing masks, the chance of infection plummets.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jul/28/how-contagious-delta-variant-it-isnt-easy-quantify/
Good lord, it's as contagious as chicken pox. Experts feel a ONE SECOND exposure might be enough to become infected.
Again, good lord. The article continues...
Scientists studying the virus agree that the delta variant is more contagious than COVID-19 was earlier in the pandemic, but its tricky to pinpoint how likely it is that an unvaccinated person will catch it, including through brief exposure.
Their opinions may evolve as more research is performed.
In 2020, scientists warned that the CDCs guidance about exposure in 15 minutes was not a magic number, and that someone could catch the disease in less than 15 minutes.
Jing Lu, one of the authors of the China study, told us that for the delta variant the "most quick transmission event we identified from epidemiological investigation is ~15 seconds."
But scientists we spoke with had varying opinions about extrapolating from the study about how much exposure time would lead to someone getting infected. Different factors affect whether someone gets infected including the ventilation of indoor spaces, peoples different immune systems, and peoples individual behavior, including whether they wear a mask.
The dynamics of infection dont allow us to extrapolate perfectly from the data in the preprint study about the odds of getting infected within a certain amount of time of exposure, said Stephen Kissler, a postdoctoral fellow in the department of immunology and infectious diseases at Harvard.
Kissler said its possible someone could get infected in one second, but he said it's unlikely someone will catch delta by just passing someone in the supermarket. "If you were to calibrate your risk before in your day-to-day life, you know basically that you are twice as likely to get infected with SARS-CoV-2 as you were before," Kissler said.
John Moore, professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell Medical College, said there are several emerging reports "on the grapevine" that delta infections are associated with unusually high nasal viral load compared to earlier variants.
"Where there is a knowledge gap is whether there is a direct relationship between the amount of virus present on a nasal swab and the amount that is breathed/sneezed out," Moore said. Gounders "calculation is based on the premise that there is such a relationship, which seems reasonable," Moore said.
"But there are unknowns on the numbers," Moore said. "Is there truly 1,000-fold more virus shed from delta-infected people? Is the CDC estimate of 15 minutes truly precise? I cant answer those questions with certainty."
Medical experts F. Perry Wilson, Ben Cowling, and Donald K. Milton essentially agreed.
Their opinions may evolve as more research is performed.
In 2020, scientists warned that the CDCs guidance about exposure in 15 minutes was not a magic number, and that someone could catch the disease in less than 15 minutes.
Jing Lu, one of the authors of the China study, told us that for the delta variant the "most quick transmission event we identified from epidemiological investigation is ~15 seconds."
But scientists we spoke with had varying opinions about extrapolating from the study about how much exposure time would lead to someone getting infected. Different factors affect whether someone gets infected including the ventilation of indoor spaces, peoples different immune systems, and peoples individual behavior, including whether they wear a mask.
The dynamics of infection dont allow us to extrapolate perfectly from the data in the preprint study about the odds of getting infected within a certain amount of time of exposure, said Stephen Kissler, a postdoctoral fellow in the department of immunology and infectious diseases at Harvard.
Kissler said its possible someone could get infected in one second, but he said it's unlikely someone will catch delta by just passing someone in the supermarket. "If you were to calibrate your risk before in your day-to-day life, you know basically that you are twice as likely to get infected with SARS-CoV-2 as you were before," Kissler said.
John Moore, professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell Medical College, said there are several emerging reports "on the grapevine" that delta infections are associated with unusually high nasal viral load compared to earlier variants.
"Where there is a knowledge gap is whether there is a direct relationship between the amount of virus present on a nasal swab and the amount that is breathed/sneezed out," Moore said. Gounders "calculation is based on the premise that there is such a relationship, which seems reasonable," Moore said.
"But there are unknowns on the numbers," Moore said. "Is there truly 1,000-fold more virus shed from delta-infected people? Is the CDC estimate of 15 minutes truly precise? I cant answer those questions with certainty."
Medical experts F. Perry Wilson, Ben Cowling, and Donald K. Milton essentially agreed.
I think we have strayed far enough, perhaps way too far lol, from the original topic of my OP post, namely the news sources need to stop citing misleading statistics. Especially in light of the fact that a ONE SECOND exposure to the delta variant could infect you.
Dinner calls! I hope you enjoy your evening.
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Exactly. I find the OP as offensive/seemingly willfully clueless as the accusations from other side
hlthe2b
Aug 2021
#5
I'm not even sure what you're saying. They're not lying. The vaccine is highly effective.
Dream Girl
Aug 2021
#4
Then why are they quoting statistics using months old data? No need to get personal.
bluewater
Aug 2021
#16
Who is "they"? Some random person on Twitter? The Tweet is not official just some random
Dream Girl
Aug 2021
#31
Yet you titled your post to imply CDC was "lying by omission." NO, you simply need to be able
hlthe2b
Aug 2021
#50
Your disingenous explanation without accepting responsibillity & editing your OP to clarify
hlthe2b
Aug 2021
#54
No. I am attacking your posts and questioning your motivation in not correcting erroneous
hlthe2b
Aug 2021
#59
And more have seen your baseless attacks on CDC that only helps the RW destroy confidence in
hlthe2b
Aug 2021
#62
If those numbers were 10 times worse than the vaccine was still be great and working as planned
uponit7771
Aug 2021
#10
You do understand that any one can post anything on social media. I could post year old data
Dream Girl
Aug 2021
#33
these insanely high claims for effectiveness against infection are bullshit, pure and simple
Celerity
Aug 2021
#14
It is VERY simple math, the 95% for Pfizer efficacy and 90% effectiveness numbers against infection
Celerity
Aug 2021
#27
It doesn't seem to be helping, I see a lot of doubling down and some ridiculing of other
Celerity
Aug 2021
#38
The ironic AF thing is that some of this is coming from people who are hardcore about masks!
bluewater
Aug 2021
#43
Also, over in the UK (I live in Sweden but I am London-raised) they had a very different outcome
Celerity
Aug 2021
#44
I do not see any good purpose for wilful and vast over-inflation of COVID-prevention numbers.
Celerity
Aug 2021
#47
We don't do ourselves any favors by overestimating the effectiveness of the vaccines.
dawg
Aug 2021
#25
"It's distressing that there are so many here that willfully focus on the negative..."
bluewater
Aug 2021
#84
"If a state had a 100% vaccination rate, what percent of new cases would be breakthrough?"
bluewater
Aug 2021
#102
I think it equally dishonest when people say even if you are vaccinated you are at any real risk
GulfCoast66
Aug 2021
#39
No, it's not lying, either "on purpose" or by accident. The data is incomplete
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2021
#48
"What we really need is a figure for total breakthrough infections from some time in June."
bluewater
Aug 2021
#51
"They are using the most current data they can - that's the point" No, they are not.
bluewater
Aug 2021
#94
I think you are personally assuming something that no one else does, and which is unrealistic
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2021
#97
You're assuming that 100% people will get infected in the absence of a vaccine.
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2021
#116
Here's a nice article stating how much more contagious the delta variant is:
bluewater
Aug 2021
#119
The problem is that you are demanding that people only talk about what you want to hear
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2021
#125
Again, you're blaming an article for not stating what you wanted it to state
muriel_volestrangler
Aug 2021
#128
The only truly reliable data for ALL breakthrough infections of any sort in a group are the vax
Celerity
Aug 2021
#76
yes, I bookmarked this thread as I have posted a fair amount of hard data in it
Celerity
Aug 2021
#81
Have to agree with all that. I'm just trying to figure out how to get through the next month.
Tomconroy
Aug 2021
#104
No, that is wrong. Sorry. You are now delving into utter randomness as you are not taking into
Celerity
Aug 2021
#111
The vax trial we are in used both lab-grown and then later on, wild strain variants
Celerity
Aug 2021
#115