General Discussion

Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)

138. It's not as easy as pointing to the numbers and saying discrimination is the only answer

Thu Jan 12, 2012, 02:31 AM

Jan 2012

You have to consider sociological differences and many other variables before you can adequately draw those conclusions. The questions you are asking do not have easy answers.

Asian men earn more than white men. Do you think that white men are being discriminated against on the basis of wage? I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.
http://www.8asians.com/2010/08/01/asian-men-have-the-highest-salary/

A NBER study found that when you look at both men and women who have never been married and never had children, the wage gap actually favored women in the 35-43 age group. That same study suggest that the actual wage gap that exists is much smaller than you would think simply looking at the numbers once sociological factors come into play.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w11240.pdf

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"Normal" sexuality? [View all] redqueen Jan 2012 OP

Women aren't a minority. Full stop. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #1

Except in China FreakinDJ Jan 2012 #2

In the context of sociological discussions, the word 'minority' does not refer to numbers. redqueen Jan 2012 #3

"In the context of sociological discussions, the word 'minority' does not refer to numbers." LoZoccolo Jan 2012 #6

I grew up in a house hold where the bumper sticker that read jorno67 Jan 2012 #35

I have news for you. "Your" world is not THE world... redqueen Jan 2012 #37

well thank you for the update jorno67 Jan 2012 #39

You're still not getting it. redqueen Jan 2012 #41

But what then is the individual within the society to do? MrCoffee Jan 2012 #49

Well what do we do about racism? redqueen Jan 2012 #53

This is what you're up against MrCoffee Jan 2012 #69

Well... you gotta start somewhere. redqueen Jan 2012 #75

I've been through this stuff with you before... jorno67 Jan 2012 #51

Do you even understand what 'macro level' means? redqueen Jan 2012 #54

yep - I sure do. jorno67 Jan 2012 #56

Your point was about micro level anecdotes. redqueen Jan 2012 #64

It is a bunch of micro-levels Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #73

I totally agree. mistertrickster Jan 2012 #130

well said! jorno67 Jan 2012 #143

Inconveniently, "The" dictionary is "the dictionary". lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #95

I live in a family of very formidible women. hunter Jan 2012 #84

then why did i never hear aparthied era s. african blacks called a "minority"? arely staircase Jan 2012 #132

Minority rights. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #59

So why are they treated like one. Question mark. KamaAina Jan 2012 #79

By whom? The OP? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #94

By society KamaAina Jan 2012 #129

Numerically in the context of the institutional power structure: loyalsister Jan 2012 #98

Then boys are a minority. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #103

compared to? loyalsister Jan 2012 #109

No, males can't ever be in the minority because they are the dominate group Major Nikon Jan 2012 #127

Women are not a minority in the United States of America. LoZoccolo Jan 2012 #4

FFS... really? redqueen Jan 2012 #5

No, women are not a numerical minority. They are however a nondominant group in our culture. Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #9

But that is no longer true Harmony Blue Jan 2012 #68

Increases, yes. Equality, no. Gormy Cuss Jan 2012 #71

That worm is turning Major Nikon Jan 2012 #128

Because the issue being discussed requires accepting the false premise. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #104

But we make less money than men JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #24

Men were hit much harder by the recent recession than women. Lance_Boyle Jan 2012 #32

Ah yes, as always, but what about the men?! redqueen Jan 2012 #46

Well that's the thing. Equality is a math term, and it requires values on both sides to evaluate. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #99

equality is in the Scandinavian countries. ... i dont know that i necessarily believe that. seabeyond Jan 2012 #7

I was being generous. redqueen Jan 2012 #8

So is all sexuality abnormal? MrCoffee Jan 2012 #10

There is no normal/abnormal. Just society as a fluid, dynamic collection of behavior and preference. RadiationTherapy Jan 2012 #13

I should learn to read...starting with redqueen's 3rd paragraph MrCoffee Jan 2012 #15

We can use the term, but we just have to be careful about the context. redqueen Jan 2012 #14

Thank you MrCoffee Jan 2012 #16

Ha, no... it was a good question! redqueen Jan 2012 #19

Society and the power dynamics therein are fluid and able to be shaped. You have RadiationTherapy Jan 2012 #11

Thank you. redqueen Jan 2012 #43

The reason why most people tune out Feminists Harmony Blue Jan 2012 #12

Still with the numerical minority nonsense? Really? redqueen Jan 2012 #17

no, the reason people tune out the feminists is because they are speaking hard truths--and sometimes niyad Jan 2012 #21

women are getting better education compared to the past, of course. Whisp Jan 2012 #22

people tune out feminists because of 24/7 hate radio Tumbulu Jan 2012 #25

True JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #27

Believe it or not even feminists tune out other feminists Major Nikon Jan 2012 #47

Your flippant method of dismissing "feminists" MattBaggins Jan 2012 #78

You said "thrust upon them" Major Nikon Jan 2012 #126

We all have our own personal definitions of normal and of perverted. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #18

Sexuality is a minefield, it's true. redqueen Jan 2012 #20

My dear redqueen. Have thee not met perverted women? I cerntainly have. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #33

Again, this isn't about individuals. This is macro level. redqueen Jan 2012 #38

You haven't met my wife. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #40

"I'm not trying to demonize anything people do...as long as it's consensual and involves adults.." arely staircase Jan 2012 #44

It's too bad you didn't understand what I was saying. redqueen Jan 2012 #48

nuance is one thing, self-contradiction is another arely staircase Jan 2012 #50

it is only perverted when OTHER people (meaning dems, libs, etc.,) do it. witness diaper dave, niyad Jan 2012 #23

Well in my definition, both of those fall into the "perverted" category. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #29

K&R Hatchling Jan 2012 #26

I'd like to say it's my pleasure but it's really kinda depressing to be honest. redqueen Jan 2012 #30

It's sad that she's having to raise this kind of conciousness on a liberal Fawke Em Jan 2012 #31

It is sad, but not surprising. redqueen Jan 2012 #42

it's normal for women to be raped, compared to men, statistically. Whisp Jan 2012 #28

I like that term for it... "fantasy normals". redqueen Jan 2012 #36

Normal people don't think that way AngryAmish Jan 2012 #34

I'm being serious with this question: why do we need to define what "normal sexuality" is? DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #45

Well this was prompted by someone who implied in another thread... redqueen Jan 2012 #52

Thank you. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #55

No, god no... this isn't about laws. redqueen Jan 2012 #60

Cool. Again, thank you. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #62

since you're posting a call-out thread, go whole hog & give a link Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #65

True. It would differ for each person, and be what makes them happy treestar Jan 2012 #82

sexism will stop once sex does not sell, and I don't mean prostitution Demonaut Jan 2012 #57

Yes, we're barely making baby steps on this issue. redqueen Jan 2012 #61

If we were all robots we wouldn't have to wipe our asses out once per day Major Nikon Jan 2012 #139

no, I stated that it's not going to end and agree with your Demonaut Jan 2012 #145

So what do you consider normal sex? (nt) The Straight Story Jan 2012 #58

This is a macro level discussion. redqueen Jan 2012 #63

"dismiss minority groups' opinions" The Straight Story Jan 2012 #87

I think I would define "normal sexuality" ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #66

Ah but love is not sex. redqueen Jan 2012 #74

the OP could ask women why they put up with the situation and what are they msongs Jan 2012 #67

I could, but I didn't. redqueen Jan 2012 #76

"normal" is a label, an artificial construct. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #70

Ding, ding, ding.... MountainMama Jan 2012 #86

Given that (1) women outnumber men, and (2) women have the vote, Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #72

You have got to be flipping kidding me. redqueen Jan 2012 #77

rq, maybe the problem is, lot of people, not just men, don't/can't understand how Zorra Jan 2012 #89

Using "minority" to describe the majority diminshes the struggle that actual minorities face. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #97

Uh-huh. Obviously, you are a white American male. Zorra Jan 2012 #100

I'm not overly concerned about putting "your poor little mind at ease" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #102

Maybe this will help you to understand redqueen Jan 2012 #111

Did you seriously just say that women in the US are like blacks in apartheid SA? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #113

LOL, you go right on believing that... redqueen Jan 2012 #115

If women can't get elected in this country, they should ask the dominant voting bloc why not. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #119

Right. Environment and the dominant message are meaningless concepts. redqueen Jan 2012 #120

Rendered meaningless by your malpractice with them, yes. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #121

Thanks for posting that jeff. nt woolldog Jan 2012 #112

Yes, thanks, I've almost got a full MRA bingo card! redqueen Jan 2012 #114

Not sure what that means. nt woolldog Jan 2012 #117

It means nice sig, be proud. (nt) redqueen Jan 2012 #122

Oh. Thanks. nt woolldog Jan 2012 #123

LOL! I was only pointing out what is totally obvious. Zorra Jan 2012 #133

you are not subordinate. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #134

Let's try this: Zorra Jan 2012 #137

It's not as easy as pointing to the numbers and saying discrimination is the only answer Major Nikon Jan 2012 #138

AAUW themselves say (in the fine print) after correcting for work hours and experience... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #144

I think that is it exactly. redqueen Jan 2012 #110

There doesn't seem to be any other rational explanation. Zorra Jan 2012 #135

The dictionary is apparently a tool of the vast patriarchal conspiracy. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #96

"Normal" is a perfectly fine word. It is a statistical term meaning "within the norm," the norm yellowcanine Jan 2012 #80

Context. See post #14, or paragraph 3 in the OP. (nt) redqueen Jan 2012 #81

It was an observation, not a specific response/critique of the OP. yellowcanine Jan 2012 #93

Ok. redqueen Jan 2012 #101

Ever hear of Lola Montez? unionworks Jan 2012 #83

You want me to comment on the 'power' that hot women have redqueen Jan 2012 #105

So "hot" women unionworks Jan 2012 #116

And you obviously know what I'm getting at as well. redqueen Jan 2012 #118

In Pagan Ireland unionworks Jan 2012 #124

Oh yes... that was one time they were. redqueen Jan 2012 #125

See, that's what I'm talking about. mistertrickster Jan 2012 #131

Did you miss the word 'courtesan'? redqueen Jan 2012 #142

"Some people unionworks Jan 2012 #85

Bad Lola Montez! unionworks Jan 2012 #88

Important note: Betty Karlson Jan 2012 #90

Indeed... and those actual statistical minority opinions redqueen Jan 2012 #106

When it comes to the current dominant culture felix_numinous Jan 2012 #91

I agree, however we don't all agree on which behaviors are dysfunctional. redqueen Jan 2012 #107

Thank you so much for making this important point. Withywindle Jan 2012 #92

You are reading me 100% correctly. redqueen Jan 2012 #108

I'm glad, thank you! Withywindle Jan 2012 #140

It shows how bad the problem really is. redqueen Jan 2012 #141

K&R Odin2005 Jan 2012 #136