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soryang

(3,308 posts)
25. The chance of nuclear war over Taiwan is great if a conflict breaks out
Mon Aug 16, 2021, 09:39 PM
Aug 2021

....because the possibility of an early embarrassing tactical losses of US forces would prompt the inclination to use or threaten to use tactical nuclear weapons. Even if the US was successful in early stages of a military conflict with China, it would only be round one.

Fighting over Taiwan is a very bad idea. Lyle Goldstein, a Naval War College instructor with expertise in Chinese military capabilities, thinks the Chinese are in a superior position with respect to a potential conventional war over Taiwan. So does retired Admiral Bill Owens. Consequently they recommend a more thoughtful diplomatic approach which doesn't seem to be in vogue here in the US.

Goldstein and Owens have pointed out that the US can’t win a conventional war over this Chinese matter, therefore they should stop poking China in the eye over it. Goldstein argues it isn’t a matter of US strategic interest, so why would you start what could escalate into a general war over it? Owens former Deputy JCS argues the whole thing is negotiable. In fact, we had reached an understanding with the Chinese and maintained strategic ambiguity over the defense commitment, and of late, appear to have abandoned that approach, destabilizing the situation. The real issue here are the “roll back” advocates at the Pentagon and on the Hill that have the poorly informed view that the US is in a position to dictate to China. It’s a delusion. It is curious to me that roll back people who resemble conservatives from the cold war period who fought to a draw in Korea, and suffered a loss in Vietnam, think they'll fair much better with a much stronger China.

With respect to US operations close to China, the Chinese reaction is to conduct substantial military operations after US and allied forces leave the area. The Art of War presents the principle that the one who fights at extended ranges is at a disadvantage. It doesn’t really matter what conventional force multiplier one imagines that one has. “The one who first knows the measure of far and near wins.” “So when the front is prepared, the rear is lacking, and when the rear is prepared the front is lacking, preparedness on the left, means lack on the right, preparedness on the right, means lack on the left. Preparedness everywhere means lack everywhere.” So the Pentagon budget is never enough. I think the operational and budget impulse here is to try to aim at a continuous substantial US military presence close to China.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

If Taiwan can clandestinely become a nuclear power they would be wise to do so. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #1
Are you going to figt on the front lines? Cause, I'm not and I'll disown any my kids who do. marble falls Aug 2021 #2
Not a chance, not worth it. WarGamer Aug 2021 #6
We need to keep China guessing. No sense in telegraphing our strategy. Midnight Writer Aug 2021 #3
It depends on whether Taiwan wants to defend itself... Sancho Aug 2021 #4
Taiwan will defend itself. WarGamer Aug 2021 #7
Then they deserve support...assuming they ask also. Sancho Aug 2021 #10
Satellites and Intel gathering, sure... WarGamer Aug 2021 #11
I don't think the People's Army will have a picnic trying it. Taiwan is not a joke army held ... marble falls Aug 2021 #13
Indeed. joshcryer Aug 2021 #28
They want Taiwan in one intact, undamaged piece just like Hong Kong. roamer65 Aug 2021 #5
very VERY good point... WarGamer Aug 2021 #8
I read China has a logistical problem of crossing the Taiwan Strait to get a beachhead. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #9
I think they are "experimenting" with their handling of Hong Kong BumRushDaShow Aug 2021 #14
What I think doesn't matter... stillcool Aug 2021 #12
+100...n/t bluecollar2 Aug 2021 #55
HELL, NO! cornball 24 Aug 2021 #15
Though I have no knowledge about Taiwan DFW Aug 2021 #16
They did have a weapons program decades ago. But... Dial H For Hero Aug 2021 #19
I know. The conventional wisdom is that they never pursued nuclear weapons DFW Aug 2021 #31
That's a sure loser. brush Aug 2021 #17
If you thought the chip shortage we're having now is bad... zonemaster Aug 2021 #18
China is already beating the crap out of the US economically with all the debt they hold. Why would joetheman Aug 2021 #20
Probably Sgent Aug 2021 #21
Putting nuclear capable missiles on Taiwan could certainly help with WWIII. elevator Aug 2021 #45
Samsung is from Korea, not Taiwan. Caliman73 Aug 2021 #66
The post I responded to said the location of Samsung would be a factor elevator Aug 2021 #68
Ban imports from China? OhioBlue Aug 2021 #22
There are other regional powers in the area that would put pressure on the US Johonny Aug 2021 #23
I would be in favor. cinematicdiversions Aug 2021 #24
Totally disagree. If it does happen, where will you be serving in the war? Celerity Aug 2021 #37
Should we withdraw from NATO? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #44
non sequitur, Taiwan is not in NATO or the UN, and Japan & South Korea are almost universally Celerity Aug 2021 #49
Your interlocutor specifically mentioned Poland. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #50
yes, the US should honour the collective defence (Article 5) NATO agreements, Poland included Celerity Aug 2021 #52
The problem I have with NATO is that it is supposed to be an alliance of democracies. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #54
Many here in Europe said the same of the US under Trump and the Rethugs, or at least the path was Celerity Aug 2021 #57
I agree 100% DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #58
Agree 💯% Celerity Aug 2021 #59
That is why it is imperative that Joe is successful. We can't lose in 2024. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #65
The chance of nuclear war over Taiwan is great if a conflict breaks out soryang Aug 2021 #25
Unquestionably. joshcryer Aug 2021 #26
Hell no. Celerity Aug 2021 #36
I don't see China doing that. Gore1FL Aug 2021 #27
Taiwan needs to be a line in the sand Calculating Aug 2021 #29
When I was in the eighth grade in Honolulu, about 1963, I had to write about Formosa, panader0 Aug 2021 #30
As you know Chiang Kai Shek was an autocrat. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #51
Absolutely Polybius Aug 2021 #32
Cannot de-rec this enough. Celerity Aug 2021 #35
Ok Polybius Aug 2021 #39
we disagree, that is the point, no ill will intended Celerity Aug 2021 #47
I doubt we can sit idly by while a thriving democracy of 24 million people is wiped out. BlueCheeseAgain Aug 2021 #33
I don't think so, and I don't see that happening. David__77 Aug 2021 #34
We would lose. alphafemale Aug 2021 #38
Why do you say that? Polybius Aug 2021 #40
you've gotta be kidding me Calculating Aug 2021 #60
Ah well MIC must be fed malaise Aug 2021 #41
We would not fare well in that war. Voltaire2 Aug 2021 #42
Yes, sarisataka Aug 2021 #43
Yes, with the following in mind: Dial H For Hero Aug 2021 #46
The surest way to convince the PRC to attack is to convince them we won't do anything. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #48
Exactly Calculating Aug 2021 #61
It would be a difficult decision for any president. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #67
Taiwan has a Freedom House score of 94. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2021 #53
100% NOT. lark Aug 2021 #56
Why have allies then? Happy Hoosier Aug 2021 #62
Right Calculating Aug 2021 #64
Yes Devil Child Aug 2021 #63
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