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In reply to the discussion: Tim Wise: Race-Talk is a Language White Folks Need to Learn [View all]WhiskeyGrinder
(22,311 posts)91. .
Last edited Sun Oct 3, 2021, 10:58 PM - Edit history (1)
When you say we have Black and women owned businesses etc.. but still have white supremacy, I agree and think we still keep empowering those groups and projects that work and strip out the things that don't work in the system to the point where it is either just and fair or we have something to replace it that is.
The problem is, our version of market capitalism isn't built for "empowering," no matter a person's race. It's designed to be a zero-sum game, with people competing for jobs, spending dollars and markets. And without *dismantling* white supremacist systems, Black people who are thriving as entrepreneurs will still face barriers in lending, housing and health care.
Anarchy and chaos won't promote fairness and justice, it will just go back to rule of the jungle.
It's not like we have just the two choices of the current system and "anarchy and chaos." A person could argue there's plenty of anarchy and chaos in many parts of the country right now.
We got rid of redlining and we need to keep an eye on anything that comes up that tries to bring that back.
We may have gotten rid of redlining, but the problem is, the legacy of redlining -- purposefully disenfranchised neighborhoods, populations who struggle to build credit, the lack of inherited wealth among Black people -- is still with us. So then the question is, how do we correct the legacy of redlining?
And a lot of white people struggle with that part, because even thinking about a "correction" can feel unequal to white people -- like white people are going to lose something.
BALANCE not in seeing the wrong of white supremacy and injustice on one side and equality and justice on the other, but more like a FULL balanced approach to making EVERYTHING equal and just for all as was the core of the original concept, even if it only was meant for men...
The example of gender equality is another great example. White women were shut out of building wealth and independence in this nation for decades, and were granted those rights incrementally and after much debate and discussion. Women who weren't white faced even greater barriers. And even with all of the little nibbles around the edges granting women piecemeal rights, we're still fighting gender-based battles that are hundreds of years old. Reform is not the answer, and the system we have will not bring justice.Edit history
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Interesting how it sounds if you make the same argument in the converse ...
Hugh_Lebowski
Sep 2021
#7
Not being defensive, I just found it amusing that if you reverse the words
Hugh_Lebowski
Sep 2021
#12
Text inversion is not a good tool for exposing biases. But it IS a good tool for obfuscating them
StarfishSaver
Sep 2021
#43
This would be "interesting" only if we didn't live in a white supremacy.
WhiskeyGrinder
Sep 2021
#16
There are plenty of white people in Democratic/leftist/progressive spaces who perpetrate the white-
WhiskeyGrinder
Sep 2021
#17
White people telling Black people "if you want real change, do it the way I tell you to do it"
StarfishSaver
Sep 2021
#19
Let me make it "less meta". Defeating racism by using racism causes unnecessary conflict.
TigressDem
Oct 2021
#48
Don't agree with everything, but maybe you ARE helping me understand it differently.
TigressDem
Oct 2021
#83
You think we can't talk about any kind of white privilege unless we prove that
StarfishSaver
Oct 2021
#51
Mentioning race isn't an issue. NEVER going BEYOND that and making it ALL about race is still racism
TigressDem
Oct 2021
#65
Isn't it funny how sometimes people can actually agree on core issues, but argue a lot?
TigressDem
Oct 2021
#74
IF I were giving orders on how it should happen before..... we wouldn't be talking.
TigressDem
Oct 2021
#64
It's not up to you to "take the conversation FARTHER" by telling everyone what you think
StarfishSaver
Oct 2021
#70
Yes, it's probably better for you to try to start a conversation on race that's more to your liking
StarfishSaver
Oct 2021
#77
I didn't ask anyone to "build a bridge TO me" but traditionally people working together ...
TigressDem
Oct 2021
#85
Where I was growing up, there was similar sentiment, but against Blacks.
Decoy of Fenris
Sep 2021
#15
You're equating Black people being called "nigger" with white people being called "white people"?
StarfishSaver
Sep 2021
#20
You think black people being called nigger and white people being called white people has the same r
StarfishSaver
Sep 2021
#23
I'd agree that the words/phrases don't carry the same weight, to be sure.
Decoy of Fenris
Sep 2021
#24
They not only don't carry the same weight, they should never be equated in a discussion like this
StarfishSaver
Sep 2021
#26
It is more like being called "boy" or saying "black people" do X because they are black.
TigressDem
Oct 2021
#52
You keep telling us what the conversation must consist of before you'll engage in it
StarfishSaver
Oct 2021
#53
K&R. Posting this article really illustrates the need for an article like this.
WhiskeyGrinder
Sep 2021
#18