General Discussion

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)

92. Depite your obsession with the NRA is quite clear, the rest is also relevant

Sun Oct 21, 2012, 10:45 PM

Oct 2012

Guns are popular for self defense because they work. They allow the weak to resist the predators effectively. It allows the weak to protect themselves and their rights. Why you would disarm the helpless and make it easy for predators is beyond me and scarcely liberal

Birchers are just another weak strawman on you part as was cigarettes.

I did not see anyone advocating everyone carrying in a mall...did anyone else?

If you think Meek Mayor Mike will be just a private citizen when he leaves office and have no more impact or influence than you or I when utilizing his 1st amendment rights, pull the other finger.

Let me offer up a classic use of personal firearms in support of a liberal cause, the Deacons for Defense. They probably don't teach about up your way, but it was real and worked. I had family involved in it.

Also consider this...in NYC and NJ, the ones you disarm first are the poor and minorities. Gun control has classist and racist roots. Returning to them is neither liberal nor progressive.

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How do protective orders really help women? In light of today's mass shooting.. [View all] HipChick Oct 2012 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #1

Here in MO glacierbay Oct 2012 #31

Protective orders don't really protect! Protective orders allow the victims TheDebbieDee Oct 2012 #47

I advise victims of abuse that glacierbay Oct 2012 #51

I doubt that your advice to get a firearm and a CC permit was ignored.......... TheDebbieDee Oct 2012 #58

actually never mind nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #53

Stand your ground can be used in these cases, and should be without repercussions. crunch60 Oct 2012 #234

i imagine any of those that are not murderous/criminal people. nt seabeyond Oct 2012 #2

with a legal gun allowed, no one in the world is safe to go about their 1st amendment rights. graham4anything Oct 2012 #3

Illegal guns start out as legal guns. Same provenance but with a wrong turn. Loudly Oct 2012 #10

Yo Shares, is that you? ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #18

Sorry, but what a load of bullshit. eom eqfan592 Oct 2012 #16

Alert - Jury report. Enjoy... L0oniX Oct 2012 #76

Nobody is truely "safe" under any conditions.. pipoman Oct 2012 #20

What other republicans to you pray to? ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #21

He actually is a liberal democrat from Mass. graham4anything Oct 2012 #23

Really? Wasn't he the Republican Mayor of NYC for a while? One of the 25 richest people in the US ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #39

Didn't he also sic the NYPD on the Occupy demonstrators? glacierbay Oct 2012 #46

No, but you know that as I have answered this false soundbyte before. graham4anything Oct 2012 #50

Yeah he did glacierbay Oct 2012 #52

you are not from NYC, so don't be a pretender. graham4anything Oct 2012 #57

What difference does it make it I'm in NY or not? glacierbay Oct 2012 #62

you are advocating for a normal person to shoot someone first graham4anything Oct 2012 #69

You really have no clue what I'm about do you? glacierbay Oct 2012 #75

Not at all...he is advocating for people to be able to defend themselves against violence ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #79

LOL 24/7/365 graham4anything Oct 2012 #83

?????????????? nt. glacierbay Oct 2012 #85

Maybe he is calling his lifeline? ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #90

Take justice in my hands, or be shot dead along with 10 others? Hmmmm. Hard decision there. Zalatix Oct 2012 #113

get the legal guns out of the open, you then can stop an illegal gun from entering graham4anything Oct 2012 #117

So I'll ask you again glacierbay Oct 2012 #118

obviously you don't read, you just bloviate...if no one can have an outside gun graham4anything Oct 2012 #121

So I'll ask you again glacierbay Oct 2012 #122

a simple person cannot protect themselves against a mafia, it ludacrist to bring that up graham4anything Oct 2012 #123

What the fuck does the mafia have to do with my question? glacierbay Oct 2012 #124

you brought the mafia up. you said "if a gang member" the mafia is the gang, no? graham4anything Oct 2012 #125

If you don't have the answer glacierbay Oct 2012 #126

who do you think supplies them with the goods they distribute? graham4anything Oct 2012 #127

Still not answering my question glacierbay Oct 2012 #128

"...you are bullying me for some reason." PavePusher Oct 2012 #172

graham4anything already answered your question, didn't you see? Zalatix Oct 2012 #168

I saw that glacierbay Oct 2012 #171

"the brain is smarter than an idiot gun." PavePusher Oct 2012 #163

"a simple person cannot protect themselves against a mafia" PavePusher Oct 2012 #164

WTF is this "If your time is up, it is" lay down and die argument? Zalatix Oct 2012 #167

"anyone caught with one will be dealt with (legal or not). " PavePusher Oct 2012 #162

How do you advocate we do this? PavePusher Oct 2012 #161

"you are advocating for a normal person to shoot someone first" PavePusher Oct 2012 #160

Your "Meek mayor mike" is surrounded by armed guards. PavePusher Oct 2012 #159

As always(on scores of posts against me by gun fans) this is stereotyping which is wrong to do. graham4anything Oct 2012 #48

Meek Mayor Mike? Can you make it any more funny? ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #60

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness graham4anything Oct 2012 #66

Anything illegal that terminates your life would be the same ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #78

the nra is the 1% the rest is not relevant graham4anything Oct 2012 #81

Show me one post glacierbay Oct 2012 #87

wow. I mean wow. graham4anything Oct 2012 #93

wow. I mean wow. glacierbay Oct 2012 #96

The police should never "collide" with the lawful, peaceful exercise of a Constitutional Right. PavePusher Oct 2012 #180

Depite your obsession with the NRA is quite clear, the rest is also relevant ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #92

How in the Nine Flaming Hells does police misconduct justify restricting Citizens' Rights? PavePusher Oct 2012 #177

Please compare and contrast these two statements sarisataka Oct 2012 #237

What's funny is pipoman Oct 2012 #140

"Meek mayor mike" is surrounded by armed guards.... PavePusher Oct 2012 #175

Nice glacierbay Oct 2012 #32

Right, no-one ever got killed before the invention of firearms. PavePusher Oct 2012 #158

restraining orders really don't help much in cases like this 0rganism Oct 2012 #4

hi! Viva_La_Revolution Oct 2012 #17

hey there! 0rganism Oct 2012 #238

I wish I could Viva_La_Revolution Oct 2012 #240

In 1968, I was told by my attorney Suich Oct 2012 #5

+1000!!! FirstLight Oct 2012 #7

1998 for me. EarthGurl2012 Oct 2012 #9

restraining orders did not help nicole brown simpson, and did not help a woman who was murdered niyad Oct 2012 #6

Unfortunately glacierbay Oct 2012 #34

But in most cases, absence of a gun helps. Hoyt Oct 2012 #45

No it won't glacierbay Oct 2012 #55

You need to think long-term, expand your view. Hoyt Oct 2012 #59

I teach firearms to women for just this kind of thing, and for the foreseeable future firearms are ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #63

I too, have seen the horrors of domestic violence glacierbay Oct 2012 #67

I'm sorry Hoyt glacierbay Oct 2012 #65

I'll agree you and I have a different view of police, in general. Hoyt Oct 2012 #73

If you think a enraged and irrational individual will not act because all they have ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #80

Surely you can cite to stats, pre- and post-firearm development, that support your assertion. n/t PavePusher Oct 2012 #183

Ever heard of fists? Jamastiene Oct 2012 #226

Tell that to a woman all bloodied and bruised from the fists that just pounded her into a pulp. n/t Jamastiene Oct 2012 #225

How about a baby who gets shot? In most cases there are better ways Hoyt Oct 2012 #227

Or the 4 year old who was beaten to death 6 miles north of me the other week? Jamastiene Oct 2012 #229

One of my worse domestic violence calls glacierbay Oct 2012 #231

I suppose a gun would have helped. Hoyt Oct 2012 #236

Your facile facetiousness has wandered grossly off-topic. n/t PavePusher Oct 2012 #239

If a guy is determined to get you a piece of paper won't stop him. virgogal Oct 2012 #8

yup. deafskeptic Oct 2012 #13

A law is only as effective as a persons willingness to follow it. Xithras Oct 2012 #152

No. H2O Man Oct 2012 #11

I'm sure I'm about to enrage some folks but here goes anyway justiceischeap Oct 2012 #12

That's already the law obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #14

Then it doesn't seem to be working. justiceischeap Oct 2012 #25

Ultimately, the women, some of them, are facing situations where they will need to be armed. krispos42 Oct 2012 #42

+1 graham4anything Oct 2012 #24

Like this one? dems_rightnow Oct 2012 #30

Here in Missouri glacierbay Oct 2012 #37

That was the case here... Jeff In Milwaukee Oct 2012 #173

They tell you when you file LadyHawkAZ Oct 2012 #15

Govt. is not obligated to protect anyone unless they are in custody. Self-defense is a personal jody Oct 2012 #19

Maybe we should start making self-defense easier by reducing gun availability. Hoyt Oct 2012 #26

+ a zillion trillion million graham4anything Oct 2012 #29

It seems so obvious. And, you are exactly right about "legal" guns Hoyt Oct 2012 #40

That would only make things eaiser for the perps ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #70

Except, Professor, there would be a lot less perps. Hoyt Oct 2012 #77

You truly think someone bent on violence will not use another weapon than a handgun? ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #82

Not everyone who does crud like this is as "bent" as you assume. Hoyt Oct 2012 #89

What about those you would disarm who need firearms to protect themselves against ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #95

Professor, much less will do it without a gun. Hoyt Oct 2012 #97

Much less or 10%? ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #98

I think most folks would prefer to fight a brick, or belt. Hoyt Oct 2012 #105

You just nailed it glacierbay Oct 2012 #107

Prey logic. Zalatix Oct 2012 #174

People who consider themselves "prey" probably ought not have access to guns. Hoyt Oct 2012 #176

Moar prey logic! Zalatix Oct 2012 #181

A woman who has an RO against an abusive husband shouldn't have access to defensive weapons? PavePusher Oct 2012 #187

If he or she truly consider themselves "prey" (meaning they will do anything to survive), and Hoyt Oct 2012 #197

Not necessarily glacierbay Oct 2012 #84

GB, I get it some folks will use another weapon, but many who might use a gun Hoyt Oct 2012 #106

Very true glacierbay Oct 2012 #108

Sounds good and thanks. I did the ride along that with my father-in-law years ago. Hoyt Oct 2012 #132

I promise I'll supply the donuts and coffee glacierbay Oct 2012 #133

YUP!!! graham4anything Oct 2012 #116

So a law abiding citizen with a gun glacierbay Oct 2012 #119

Let's be fair. The point here is to cut down on the criminals who have a gun, and Hoyt Oct 2012 #134

I fully agree glacierbay Oct 2012 #136

"...become a criminal because guns are so accessible." PavePusher Oct 2012 #193

Statistics work differently in that one's world. n/t PavePusher Oct 2012 #192

Very true glacierbay Oct 2012 #198

Sounds like we have same experience with gun cultists. Hoyt Oct 2012 #130

Why don't you take a look at some of the posts I've made recently, Hoyt? Decoy of Fenris Oct 2012 #131

So that I have a little better feel for where you are coming from -- How do you feel about NRA? Hoyt Oct 2012 #135

C'mon Hoyt glacierbay Oct 2012 #137

I believe I've answered these questions from you before, or something similar. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2012 #139

If you think the Mississippi gun shop selling a Charlie Rangel assault rifle is just satire, we'd Hoyt Oct 2012 #142

Ah, aye, it was DanTex, not you. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2012 #143

I find it unfortunate you don't acknowledge the racism in the Mississippi gun store's promotion. Hoyt Oct 2012 #144

There's no racism glacierbay Oct 2012 #147

Well, see, that's a little personal problem. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2012 #150

You probably didn't see racism in Reagan launching his presidential campaign Hoyt Oct 2012 #166

Nope. Had to do some digging. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2012 #179

I think you need some history lessons on the subject. Hoyt Oct 2012 #182

Please point out the racism. n/t PavePusher Oct 2012 #196

Unless you can explicitly cite this "racism" you seem to be imagining... PavePusher Oct 2012 #199

Not to shoot people glacierbay Oct 2012 #145

GB, no that is not racist. However the Mississippi gun store promotion is. Hoyt Oct 2012 #146

Can you prove that it's racist? glacierbay Oct 2012 #148

Probably not to your satisfaction. Not sure you understand the term. Hoyt Oct 2012 #165

So you have no proof that it's racist based. glacierbay Oct 2012 #169

More insinuated slander from you. Interesting. PavePusher Oct 2012 #200

Please point out the "racist gun cultists" you refer to at your link. PavePusher Oct 2012 #194

YUP! graham4anything Oct 2012 #138

Here's what I find ironic glacierbay Oct 2012 #141

what cats hear when people talk blah blah blah blah blah graham4anything Oct 2012 #149

I rest my case. nt. glacierbay Oct 2012 #151

Legal guns stop the removal of illegal guns. You cannot deny it. graham4anything Oct 2012 #153

How in the world do legally owned guns stop the removal of illegal guns? glacierbay Oct 2012 #154

legal guns stop the removal of illegal guns. for the 8th time today. graham4anything Oct 2012 #155

And you have yet to answer any question posed to you glacierbay Oct 2012 #157

"legal guns stop the removal of illegal guns." You still haven't explained this. PavePusher Oct 2012 #202

anyone with a gun could shoot me for no reason at all,then claim self defense graham4anything Oct 2012 #216

"then claim self defense" PavePusher Oct 2012 #219

"legal guns stop the removal of illegal guns" PavePusher Oct 2012 #203

Clearly you know nothing about physical combat. PavePusher Oct 2012 #191

"but many who might use a gun won't use a less lethal weapon." PavePusher Oct 2012 #188

Please cite your supporting evidence. n/t PavePusher Oct 2012 #186

Assuming the would-be victims are always the strongest and most violent people in our society 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #101

Because crime was lower in pre-firearm days? PavePusher Oct 2012 #185

citizens can call 911 when attacked, and kindly tell the perp to please wait 15 min for the police niyad Oct 2012 #68

Apparently you did not understand what I wrote. Please reread. nt jody Oct 2012 #100

I understood you just fine. so do please tell me how a person is supposed to defend herself, niyad Oct 2012 #109

In some states she could have been armed. IMO that option should be jody Oct 2012 #110

Wow, you SERIOUSLY didn't read that post for comprehension, did you? Zalatix Oct 2012 #112

Perhaps some additional punctuation will make the meaning more clear? PavePusher Oct 2012 #204

It's a piece of paper, and far from bullet proof. eqfan592 Oct 2012 #22

It boggles the mind graham4anything Oct 2012 #28

So if there's a law that says you can't take your gun out of your home glacierbay Oct 2012 #38

we have argued on 100s of threads. You are pro-gun. I am anti-gun. graham4anything Oct 2012 #43

You didn't answer the question glacierbay Oct 2012 #44

You can't get rid of illegal guns til you get rid of legal ones. graham4anything Oct 2012 #54

So in other words glacierbay Oct 2012 #56

They should issue the victim a gun along with the protection order leftstreet Oct 2012 #35

Agree. nt jody Oct 2012 #41

What do you do about dual restraining orders? hughee99 Oct 2012 #86

What is this "qualify" you speak of? PavePusher Oct 2012 #206

Depending on the state, are you a convicted felon? hughee99 Oct 2012 #209

I know.... PavePusher Oct 2012 #213

Rereading it after your post, I can see where I may have left that impression hughee99 Oct 2012 #214

No problem. I have to admit to a bit of sensitivity on the subject. PavePusher Oct 2012 #215

No problem. hughee99 Oct 2012 #217

Read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker. Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #27

They will not protect you against someone who wants to do physical harm. former9thward Oct 2012 #33

Last week this time Captain Barkey and his girlfriend were murdered malaise Oct 2012 #36

If your relatives are crazy, nobody can protect you undeterred Oct 2012 #49

A Secret Service detail also is pretty good protection FarCenter Oct 2012 #61

+1 million Zoeisright Oct 2012 #72

Not neccesarily. PavePusher Oct 2012 #207

They don't usually. Lone_Star_Dem Oct 2012 #64

They do help. My husband was the head of a woman's shelter Zoeisright Oct 2012 #71

They most certainly not end up in prison glacierbay Oct 2012 #189

Why should someone end up in prison for exercising a Constitutional Right???? PavePusher Oct 2012 #208

I'm not a fan of them. It's said that they actually make things worse! progressivebydesign Oct 2012 #74

They do work in many cases CitizenPatriot Oct 2012 #88

+10000 glacierbay Oct 2012 #94

My late wife helped people running and hiding ProgressiveProfessor Oct 2012 #102

I have helped as well and it will kill your belief in people CitizenPatriot Oct 2012 #114

So what message are you actually advocating there? n/t vaberella Oct 2012 #91

Laws are only as effective as their enforcement 4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #99

Orders for protection/restraining orders are a very helpful tool at work rustydog Oct 2012 #103

PROPS for that. Very encouraging and proactive. n/t CitizenPatriot Oct 2012 #115

A gun probably would not have helped her in this case. agentS Oct 2012 #104

Maybe, maybe not. PavePusher Oct 2012 #210

They do help a lot of women treestar Oct 2012 #111

Of course it's flawed. That doesn't mean it hasn't helped women. cali Oct 2012 #120

protective orders need to come with GPS's for both parties ileus Oct 2012 #129

For the most part, laws are punitive, not preventative. porphyrian Oct 2012 #156

Inadequate gun laws are a part of the problem. DanTex Oct 2012 #170

So what law would have stopped this guy from killing her? glacierbay Oct 2012 #184

It's much easier to murder with a gun than with other weapons. DanTex Oct 2012 #190

I'm going to have to dispute your post glacierbay Oct 2012 #195

OK, then we disagree. DanTex Oct 2012 #201

You didn't answer the question: PavePusher Oct 2012 #212

the new law- all guns must remain inside a home. And better security nationwide, like graham4anything Oct 2012 #218

So you want a police state..... PavePusher Oct 2012 #220

because of legal guns, we can't get rid of illegal guns graham4anything Oct 2012 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author PavePusher Oct 2012 #222

"take away crime, you don't need the police at all" PavePusher Oct 2012 #223

So I'll ask you again glacierbay Oct 2012 #228

None. Jamastiene Oct 2012 #230

I just don't understand how some posters here, one in particular glacierbay Oct 2012 #232

"I see the NRA crowd is here in full force, arguing as usual that the solution is more guns." PavePusher Oct 2012 #211

Laws against murder haven't protected any victim of such a crime Kaleva Oct 2012 #178

good question. Liberal_in_LA Oct 2012 #205

For the most part, they don't. Jamastiene Oct 2012 #224

Protective orders are not to protect any single gender RB TexLa Oct 2012 #233

Protective orders do not help women. Be prepared, carry a gun. A man intent on killing crunch60 Oct 2012 #235