General Discussion

JohnSJ

(98,883 posts)

12. and end up passing nothing, because that is what would have happened. I fail to understand why some

Sun Dec 19, 2021, 11:06 AM

Dec 2021

keep arguing the same frustrations over and over again. The rigidity of Manchin and Sinema on the filibuster, and how much they were willing go on the bills should not be a surprise at this stage. This is the reality of what we have.

Whether we like it or not, they will be defining the constraints of these bills.

However, the advantage we have at this time because we have the majority in the Senate, is that we have at least two years to make as many judicial appoints as become available, including the Supreme Court.

In the meantime the focus needs to be on winning at least a two seat majority in the Senate, and a majority in the House, which should help neutralize the issues we are having now

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The Squad was right to vote against infrastructure bill Part 3: Manchin a NO on BBB [View all] wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 OP

No. We would have been in same place but in it longer. boston bean Dec 2021 #1

And without the BIF FBaggins Dec 2021 #3

Leaving trillions of dollars on the table is NOT a savvy move wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #6

Yet that's what you're advocating FBaggins Dec 2021 #10

BIF would have passed anyway wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #13

Not as long as it was held hostage for the larger BBB FBaggins Dec 2021 #21

You put the bills on the floor, and force them to vote them down wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #23

Interesting. That's exactly what the squad did FBaggins Dec 2021 #28

Yes, and I explained the Squad's vote in the OP wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #32

Explained but not excused FBaggins Dec 2021 #45

Then make him vote against both BIF and BBB wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #48

There's that same mistake again FBaggins Dec 2021 #61

The leverage is the vote wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #63

Didn't you claim just the opposite with Pelosi? FBaggins Dec 2021 #73

Manchin represents a state BGBD Dec 2021 #77

Majority of West Virginians support BBB wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #78

No BGBD Dec 2021 #80

Show me your numbers wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #81

How about a real poll first? FBaggins Dec 2021 #85

Then get the polls wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #88

No you won't FBaggins Dec 2021 #91

Ok BGBD Dec 2021 #93

That's not a poll on BBB wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #96

False, WV is only 'red' on social issues radius777 Dec 2021 #122

There is no middle quakerboy Dec 2021 #108

That's nonsense... and just like Trump FBaggins Dec 2021 #113

The nonsense quakerboy Dec 2021 #117

Just went round and round with someone else on this. CrackityJones75 Dec 2021 #135

Why don't you contact Schumer about that? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #65

Then I need your help wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #66

I'm not going to contact Senator Schumer TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #70

Then I will not hear another word about activism wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #79

ROTFL. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #94

But you just said you won't contact a senator wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #97

No, because I never joined you on your playing field. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #105

Yes, it would have. PTWB Dec 2021 #25

It's not even a "progressives versus moderate" fight? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #29

Some people call them moderates. PTWB Dec 2021 #33

Exactly. Without the BIF. The public fighting can be Nixie Dec 2021 #7

Lol qazplm135 Dec 2021 #55

Wrong. The money allocated is to some major employers, Nixie Dec 2021 #58

Yeah no qazplm135 Dec 2021 #64

Uh yes. There are major employers in there. Nixie Dec 2021 #67

Nice specificity there lol qazplm135 Dec 2021 #68

You should be honest. You don't want specifics because it Nixie Dec 2021 #69

Of course you won't qazplm135 Dec 2021 #90

Deja vu. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #84

Humans don't work that way qazplm135 Dec 2021 #95

aka fair-weather Democrats. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #106

Welp pal qazplm135 Dec 2021 #110

Similarly, progressives need moderates or they stand little chance of winning elections. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #127

You mean like Manchin did today right? qazplm135 Dec 2021 #129

The Squad only looked after their self-interests TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #130

But not Manchin qazplm135 Dec 2021 #132

You are welcome to have your opinion about Manchin. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #133

Lmao qazplm135 Dec 2021 #134

LMAO because I think the same thing about you and your comments. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #136

Yes empedocles Dec 2021 #15

A maximum pressure campaign on Manchinema would have gotten earlier passage wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #5

There isn't any evidence that supports your speculation. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #22

No other organization is this precious about keeping members in line wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #27

You will need to take that up with EarlG. His site, his rules. nt TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #52

Pray tell... what are these "tools"?? FBaggins Dec 2021 #75

This White House statement is a good start wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #76

What does the "Democratic Majority for Israel" have to do with pressuring Manchin. There are about JohnSJ Dec 2021 #31

What does the number of Jews have to do wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #36

You are the one who brought up using the "Democratic Majority for Israel", as a PAC against Manchin, JohnSJ Dec 2021 #41

You use every PAC in the Democratic apparatus against Manchin wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #46

Nothing stops those PACs from doing that now if they wanted to JohnSJ Dec 2021 #51

You are wasting your breath. They live in an alternate universe where grantcart Dec 2021 #9

In what universe wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #11

A universe where something gets passed FBaggins Dec 2021 #24

It turns out he was lying and stalling wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #26

Prove it FBaggins Dec 2021 #34

There is no bill wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #44

The progressives killed it FBaggins Dec 2021 #59

Okay, so this means we're pin the blame on progressives wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #62

What a cilla4progress Dec 2021 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 2021 #4

Squad supporters have been pilloried on this board. nt Hotler Dec 2021 #8

and end up passing nothing, because that is what would have happened. I fail to understand why some JohnSJ Dec 2021 #12

Manchin needed to pass BIF wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #16

There is no false narritive, this is what a 50-50 Senate is. Until we achieve at least a two seat JohnSJ Dec 2021 #37

This is the type of learned helplessness that we need to move on from wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #38

Wanting * Needing More Senate Seats Is Not A Sign Of Weakness Me. Dec 2021 #42

Did we have the votes or not. ismnotwasm Dec 2021 #47

Yes we did wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #49

We didn't have the cards to play FBaggins Dec 2021 #125

I would argue you have not presented one viable option that would get Manchin or Sinema to change JohnSJ Dec 2021 #50

It's been said before, but if Stein hadn't been on the ballot, those 1%ers would've stayed home. TheRickles Dec 2021 #83

Totally Agree Me. Dec 2021 #17

Disagree Me. Dec 2021 #14

Manchin needed to pass BIF wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #18

There is also no universe where Manchin will vote for the expanded programs in the BBB. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #30

He voted for the Rescue bill, which is just handouts to THOSE people wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #39

Who are you referring to with the emphasis on THOSE people? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #56

Manchin has repeatedly explained who THOSE people were wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #57

+1. pressure tactics quite evidently have NOT worked stopdiggin Dec 2021 #53

When had we put Manchin's feet to the fire? wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #60

the bills were de-coupled stopdiggin Dec 2021 #82

You don't decouple them wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #87

"NOT going to tank Biden's full agenda and become pariahs .." stopdiggin Dec 2021 #104

They were never coupled to begin with - that was always the mistaken fantasy FBaggins Dec 2021 #115

Manchinema wanted them decoupled wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #116

And they got that months ago FBaggins Dec 2021 #118

And handing them that concession got us where we are today wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #119

Laughable FBaggins Dec 2021 #121

A promise is not a vote... lame54 Dec 2021 #72

So now there is nothing.... Historic NY Dec 2021 #19

K&R WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2021 #20

Yup. Now, children will suffer and the planet will deteriorate until at least 2025 Fiendish Thingy Dec 2021 #35

Well, unless Manchin caves in, we shall see if the people who told me all we need to cruise to Celerity Dec 2021 #40

Agreed. nt DLevine Dec 2021 #43

I agree with their vote against BIF. David__77 Dec 2021 #54

But there should be a cost, a price he has to pay. calimary Dec 2021 #71

This is quite a pant load. BannonsLiver Dec 2021 #74

No it WAS the wrong move. We now have an infrastructure bill. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #86

BIF did not improve Biden's approval ratings at all wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #89

Well, exploding the debt is another bad move. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #98

BBB was fully paid for wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #99

Not a "right wing narrative", just a fact you dont like. CBO says it adds 160 billion. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #137

I suspect that BIF and BBB will only have a small impact on 2022 voters. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #101

You pass Biden's agenda to excite and turn out Dem midterm voters wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #103

Once again, I consider the conclusion that you reached to be erroneous and actually it is also TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #107

Here are the members of the Progressive Caucus wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #109

Yes, let's argue facts. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #120

Your post in question said "progressive candidate" wellst0nev0ter Dec 2021 #123

You're correct, I shouldn't have interchanged the Squad with progressives. TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #126

Joe Mansion turns out to be a water boy for the wealthy...what a surprise, not. pecosbob Dec 2021 #92

The squad is either gets BBB or gets to be right. What clever political maneuvering. mathematic Dec 2021 #100

+1 TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #111

+++. Should have learned that in 2000, and because we didn't, 2016 changed the whole dynamic JohnSJ Dec 2021 #112

Lots of points made on this. Traildogbob Dec 2021 #102

Yes, and the only way to make them irrelevant is to gain at least a two seat majority in the Senate JohnSJ Dec 2021 #114

Manchin is the hero of a segment of white moderates radius777 Dec 2021 #124

So the Squad is disliked because of their own actions? TexasTowelie Dec 2021 #128

Oh, there's always a reason to somehow find a racial aspect for everything these days. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #138

True. n/t demmiblue Dec 2021 #131