Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Lucky Luciano

(11,875 posts)
40. To minimize market impact only. The government can then slowly unwind the position...
Mon Dec 27, 2021, 01:43 PM
Dec 2021

…and assume all risk. Tricky part there is that the government would be best advised to sell ES futures versus the stock they receive to minimize market risk of those shares and as they unwind, cover the ES short. Those ES future sales could be huge and that could be a legitimate market impact. It would probably make for an amazing mean reversion trading strategy, to buy the futures that the government sells. Hmmm ……

Remember that the voting rights would be stripped.

This also removes the potential absolute hell of having to pay cash taxes followed by gigantic losses on shares that can happen on a market crash. Imagine one year having a billion in cash taxes to pay and relying on the shares to pay those taxes…then the shares crash. It is advantageous actually to be able to pay in shares. Sure…make it an option for the tax-ee. I bet they opt to pay using shares in a wealth tax scenario if voting rights are stripped.

Actually, yeah…I’m starting to like the idea more and more. If a big owner of the shares opts to pay cash and not in stock, that would be a huge vote of confidence in the stock and the macroeconomic picture in general. One could probably make a trading strategy based on that sort of insider handling of their stock.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The M$M doesn't talk about ETRs because it'll hit their millionaire pockets too if they have to uponit7771 Dec 2021 #1
When you sell shares you pay taxes. There is no tax on capital gains till then. BSdetect Dec 2021 #2
people do pay taxes on their house anti stupid Dec 2021 #11
Nice reply. Thanks. Tommymac Dec 2021 #23
For the 1000th time, no one paid those rates of the 1950s. Nowhere near it. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #25
and we don't have massive deductions to day? anti stupid Dec 2021 #48
Well, the top 10% also pay 3/4 of the income taxes. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #87
look at this linh anti stupid Dec 2021 #91
We're not going to "redistribute" the wealth. Its just not going to happen. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #93
I agree with some anti stupid Dec 2021 #94
They don't pay direct capital gains tax on their houses capital gain until they sell BSdetect Dec 2021 #43
Yes, sir. Fatal flaw in the Twitter argument ? ... ASSETS are not taxed, aside from property Alexander Of Assyria Dec 2021 #38
Tax All Wealth Accumulation Over $10 Million DanieRains Dec 2021 #49
No argument there. My point was simply the Twitter persons Twitterpost is factually distorted. Alexander Of Assyria Dec 2021 #51
Income Is A Term That Confuses People DanieRains Dec 2021 #57
What about losses then NowISeetheLight Dec 2021 #79
Oh you do pay an annual tax on your car. Trailrider1951 Dec 2021 #62
You're basically right TheFarseer Dec 2021 #78
No matter what he does, people are going to whine about it! Nt USALiberal Dec 2021 #3
Yeah, they're just jealous tenderfoot Dec 2021 #6
Such ghouls! smirkymonkey Dec 2021 #28
How so? Look like ordinary people in fancy blazers, maybe I missed something? Alexander Of Assyria Dec 2021 #39
Are you sure you are in the right place? smirkymonkey Dec 2021 #46
Tolerance is good for debate. Alexander Of Assyria Dec 2021 #50
Blocked DoBotherMe Dec 2021 #56
No, I m fine. Alexander Of Assyria Dec 2021 #61
+10000000000000000 Celerity Dec 2021 #65
Rec kcr Dec 2021 #88
You don't recognize the woman he's with? NickB79 Dec 2021 #70
And no matter what he does people are going to idolize him 48656c6c6f20 Dec 2021 #27
Idolize is strawman argument . Admire for his vision and fortitude, can we do that? Alexander Of Assyria Dec 2021 #41
He's kind of a horrible person 48656c6c6f20 Dec 2021 #63
Yet he did it! Nt USALiberal Dec 2021 #77
Yeah I guess he did it.. 48656c6c6f20 Dec 2021 #81
Ask NASA if they think he succeeded! Nt USALiberal Dec 2021 #82
Can't. Don't have a BASH Liif phone. 48656c6c6f20 Dec 2021 #83
Most of what he does is awful. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2021 #74
Lol, tell NASA to fire him! Nt USALiberal Dec 2021 #76
$36 billion in one day? PatSeg Dec 2021 #4
He also lost over $50 billion in 2 days. She fails to mention that, of course. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #36
Yes sir, a lot gets left out in any one Twitter post. As intended I guess. Alexander Of Assyria Dec 2021 #42
One of the many downsides of Twitter and short attentions spans PatSeg Dec 2021 #54
Yes, I guess that is the problem with Twitter or Meme communication PatSeg Dec 2021 #53
And i should say "lost" since its only a loss or gain if you SELL. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #86
to be fair iemanja Dec 2021 #5
Which is why some form of a "wealth tax" is necessary... Wounded Bear Dec 2021 #8
I'd hate to have to pay on my 401K before I take out a dime at 59 1/2 eligible. jimfields33 Dec 2021 #13
Wealth tax would start at a pretty high level. Way past a 401-K level. Lucky Luciano Dec 2021 #20
How do you know? former9thward Dec 2021 #24
Bingo! oldsoftie Dec 2021 #34
True, but nobody talks about this for non-billionaires. Your slippery slope argument is valid though Lucky Luciano Dec 2021 #45
If it gets like VAT in Europe, that is one very slippery slope, indeed. DFW Dec 2021 #60
When income tax was first enacted, they said the same thing MichMan Dec 2021 #73
I think most Americans would *love* to see everyone paying a fair share. Torchlight Dec 2021 #29
Wealth Tax is a Really Bad Idea PBC_Democrat Dec 2021 #31
Perhaps they can pay taxes in shares. Lucky Luciano Dec 2021 #33
So then you'd want the government owning shares? Yeah, THAT wouldnt affect legislation at all..... oldsoftie Dec 2021 #35
To minimize market impact only. The government can then slowly unwind the position... Lucky Luciano Dec 2021 #40
Why would you strip voting rights? This is a good thing fescuerescue Dec 2021 #66
The government isn't paying a price. It is received as a tax. Lucky Luciano Dec 2021 #68
That law would be 25,000 pages. It'll never happen. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #85
It's complex, but something to run with. A straight up wealth tax is otherwise bad. Lucky Luciano Dec 2021 #90
"Most" US households don't pay any Federal tax madville Dec 2021 #7
Minimum Tax NowISeetheLight Dec 2021 #10
Your one of the 39 percent. jimfields33 Dec 2021 #12
Yes I Was NowISeetheLight Dec 2021 #37
I totally agree with you jimfields33 Dec 2021 #47
With my deductions, I haven't paid taxes in years. Kaleva Dec 2021 #19
DO YOU GET A PAY CHECK anti stupid Dec 2021 #14
I used to make money doing my taxes madville Dec 2021 #17
yes this is possible anti stupid Dec 2021 #21
Lots of lower income people got tax cuts too MichMan Dec 2021 #64
most people anti stupid Dec 2021 #67
That is because of the pandemic edhopper Dec 2021 #15
Also the increased child tax credit madville Dec 2021 #18
Yes; a family of 4 could make about 50k and pay zero income taxes. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #32
Can we include all sales of stocks in the sales tax? lostnfound Dec 2021 #71
You already pay income tax on stock profits after a sale. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #84
Try not to overlook the "Tax" paid into FICA (Social Security) and Medicare. rgbecker Dec 2021 #89
I made money this year... NowISeetheLight Dec 2021 #9
And meanwhile edhopper Dec 2021 #16
401k Too NowISeetheLight Dec 2021 #44
I agree with most of your assesment. Because its not crazy talk. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #30
I think Anya Overmann is confusing net worth with income. Kaleva Dec 2021 #22
To be fair, he also LOST over $50 BILLION over 2 days just a few weeks ago. oldsoftie Dec 2021 #26
Looking around... lonely bird Dec 2021 #52
The tax discussion is incoherent. hay rick Dec 2021 #55
Watch out every one, Middle class taxes were higher inn 2021 IbogaProject Dec 2021 #58
Both Smith and Mills wanted steep progressive tax rates IbogaProject Dec 2021 #59
My net worth is well over $100K but well under $1M sir pball Dec 2021 #69
The majority of my net worth is in my IRA MichMan Dec 2021 #72
It may be relative, but its also fair if the Government doesn't change the tax rules. brooklynite Dec 2021 #75
I guess better people than I understand how your rockets tavernier Dec 2021 #80
Where's a bronterac when you need one? oioioi Dec 2021 #92
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Elon Musk DID pay taxes t...»Reply #40