General Discussion

PTWB

(4,131 posts)

257. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

Fri Jan 7, 2022, 09:34 PM

Jan 2022

We know he saw the suspect with a rifle on the other side of the fence because he said he could see those things over the radio before the shooting began.

How, exactly, do you suggest that he could see across the fence prior to the shooting but could not see across the fence during the shooting?

What evidence are you using to support your position?

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Video shows cop shoot without warning at man firing into air [View all] Ohio Joe Jan 2022 OP

Hell with the warning, he was firing into a wooden fence MagickMuffin Jan 2022 #1

Wut?!? Nevilledog Jan 2022 #2

If I'm understanding the story correctly MagickMuffin Jan 2022 #8

I thought you were talking about the dead guy. My bad. Nevilledog Jan 2022 #10

Voluntary manslaughter. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #3

+1000 WarGamer Jan 2022 #5

Jail time. ZonkerHarris Jan 2022 #7

No it isn't either...the person firing gun was a big risk to people in the area...no sympathy. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #18

It was reckless behavior for sure but not a direct threat to an individual SYFROYH Jan 2022 #34

Shooting guns in a neighborhood is a direct threat to all neighbors...the guy was an idiot. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #54

It looks like we disagree. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #67

those bullets do come down you know NoRethugFriends Jan 2022 #122

Of course, but the vast majority of them hurt no one. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #127

The vast majority of them...are you fucking kidding me...what you expect his neighbors to Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #132

I simple police announcement and command before killing him is all I ask for. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #142

Have you ever been mere feet away from someone firing rapidly firing a rifle? PTWB Jan 2022 #150

Jesus H Christ. Yes, at ranges with hearing protection and SYFROYH Jan 2022 #159

Your experience is very different from mine. PTWB Jan 2022 #164

Even its true that he wouldn't have heard the police... SYFROYH Jan 2022 #169

Why would you expect that? PTWB Jan 2022 #175

There was no imminent threat. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #181

There was an imminent threat. PTWB Jan 2022 #184

Your example proves you wrong. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #185

I think we must be talking about different cases. PTWB Jan 2022 #187

I could be wrong but in Waikesha the driver had already hit people and was still on the parade route SYFROYH Jan 2022 #189

There were no people immediately in the path of the vehicle when the police shot. PTWB Jan 2022 #190

Have you ever been around with an AR-15 being fired...I doubt he would have heard it. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #182

Yes, and people can hear someone shouting at them. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #183

Have you ever talked to a person firing a weapon feet from you? marie999 Jan 2022 #135

Yes and yes they can. Have you? SYFROYH Jan 2022 #139

He was firing as fast as he could pull the trigger, 3 or 4 times per second. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #144

If we're talking about experiences, I've seen range masters SYFROYH Jan 2022 #157

When I was in the army, the range master used a loudspeaker. marie999 Jan 2022 #145

Most range masters don't have to. SYFROYH Jan 2022 #147

Let alone one being fired 3 or 4 times per second. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #141

Doubling down because you expressed an opinion before the facts came out. Stop digging. Yeah it is Solomon Jan 2022 #40

Not at all. The guy was firing into the air...an AR15 no less...dangerously stupid so I have no Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #55

Stupid, illegal but not a death no due process death sentence. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #76

He had a gun and was firing it...endangering a city neighborhood. This isn't in the country... Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #134

I'm not expressing any sympathy for the victim. It's due process I care about and you should too. Solomon Jan 2022 #269

So, the cop should have waited until he killed someone? marie999 Jan 2022 #161

I think the cop ForgedCrank Jan 2022 #105

When the only tool you've got is a hammer... WarGamer Jan 2022 #4

What kind of warning would you expect the suspect to hear over his rapid fire blasting? PTWB Jan 2022 #6

So shooting blindly through a fence without IDing a target is the right way? ZonkerHarris Jan 2022 #9

Was it really shooting blindly? PTWB Jan 2022 #11

There could have been other people or a child standing there. NutmegYankee Jan 2022 #13

Do you have any information that suggests the shooter was firing blanks? PTWB Jan 2022 #16

Can you prove to me they were not? NutmegYankee Jan 2022 #19

That isn't how that works. PTWB Jan 2022 #21

Nope. I made no claim. NutmegYankee Jan 2022 #23

Suggestion, then. PTWB Jan 2022 #26

Which goes back that the officer shot through a blind wall (fence) with little info. NutmegYankee Jan 2022 #28

The officer shooting would have still been justified. PTWB Jan 2022 #33

Excuse me? NutmegYankee Jan 2022 #35

Nor can I. PTWB Jan 2022 #44

Ridiculous inthewind21 Jan 2022 #146

What is? PTWB Jan 2022 #151

So if his son was with him you are ok with shooting going through fence?? USALiberal Jan 2022 #36

If he's rapid firing an assault rifle illegally with his son next to him NickB79 Jan 2022 #38

Lol, ok USALiberal Jan 2022 #50

How about if the reckless shooter had shot an innocent kid sleeping in his/her bed? Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #52

What, cops are supposed to wait before they shoot a shooter to make sure they are not firing blanks? marie999 Jan 2022 #140

Unless the rifle had a blank adapter installed dumbcat Jan 2022 #173

The guy shooting in the air had no business doing this...he risked the lives of every person in this Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #15

but "everyone around here does it" maxsolomon Jan 2022 #22

Hehe...fuck the right to bear arms...kids should be able to sleep in their beds without getting Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #43

that's gun-grabber talk maxsolomon Jan 2022 #46

Personally, it is lucky that this idiot didn't manage to shoot innocent kids...I really have no Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #49

So fuck due process right ?! REALLY ?! uponit7771 Jan 2022 #75

Are you kidding...he had an AR-15 and was shooting in the air in a city neighborhood... Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #136

So inthewind21 Jan 2022 #153

Due process is not a consideration. PTWB Jan 2022 #154

Due process comes after an arrest-this has nothing to do with due process...the bottom line is this, Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #178

They're being technical with the definition of "due process" but I think word whipping shows .. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #195

Still not a death sentence uponit7771 Jan 2022 #191

If he didn't ID the shooter, how did he shoot the right person? marie999 Jan 2022 #133

Nice try!! Nt USALiberal Jan 2022 #27

Stop PTWB, ... no, just stop uponit7771 Jan 2022 #74

I take pretty much same position on these things, if a victim or perp has a gun, Hoyt Jan 2022 #12

+1000 Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #17

"Don't sell them"? Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #51

Why I suppose you could sell them to anyone you want...hopefully the buyer won't shoot up a Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #57

The only SCOTUS ruling on guns in quite some time was the Heller decision. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #59

I refer to the right for an 'individual' to bear arms...a militia is not an individual...our laws Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #60

The Heller decision forced areas with highly restrictive gun laws such as Washington DC to permit Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #61

Point to me one time in US history when you had to be in a militia to own firearms EX500rider Jan 2022 #188

Hero, you are a gun promoter/apologist, wear body armor, gun profiteer, Hoyt Jan 2022 #62

What do you say to all the firearm owners who vote Democratic? PTWB Jan 2022 #64

If one straps a gun on to walk out the door, they're a blight on society. Sorry. Hoyt Jan 2022 #66

I vote Democratic in every election and have for many, many years. PTWB Jan 2022 #70

I say it's not enough 48656c6c6f20 Jan 2022 #71

Hoyt, you have admitted to committing robbery. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #82

Once again Hero, you missed context of post. IAE, you are a gunner and you promote more gunz. Hoyt Jan 2022 #116

Please explain that context for the benefit of the studio audience, then. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #119

Not going to feel sorry for any adult who does something stupid with a gun Kaleva Jan 2022 #14

Firing into the air is deadly for one thing. gulliver Jan 2022 #20

WTRF link Marthe48 Jan 2022 #41

Thanks gulliver Jan 2022 #68

Yeah-Ohio Marthe48 Jan 2022 #80

I think the ammosexual firing his gun in a residential area got what he asked for. lagomorph777 Jan 2022 #166

Do cops freak out and shoot 1st when there's active gunfire? Yes. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #24

It is illegal to fire a gun into the air in the city in Ohio. I live in Ohio. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #45

I'm never sure any more. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #48

You are right, no White person has ever been shot by a cop. marie999 Jan 2022 #174

All of a sudden, DU is siding with the guy with the AR illegally firing dozens of rounds NickB79 Jan 2022 #25

Read the story again!! Nt USALiberal Jan 2022 #29

I did. I also watched the video earlier today NickB79 Jan 2022 #31

So shooting through a fence.... USALiberal Jan 2022 #32

To stop a guy raining bullets into his neighborhood? NickB79 Jan 2022 #37

Nice try.... USALiberal Jan 2022 #42

Well the cop shot the perp or shooter didn't he? I bet the neighbors were scared to death. Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #47

"Everyone around here does it" maxsolomon Jan 2022 #65

It is amazing how easily sarisataka Jan 2022 #39

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #69

It is rather thick sarisataka Jan 2022 #83

thanks for clearing that up. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #117

Yes, I believe we are, sarisataka Jan 2022 #126

Guns guns guns! 48656c6c6f20 Jan 2022 #72

False, we're siding with due process and proper policing not idiots doing idiotic things. When it uponit7771 Jan 2022 #77

I am sorry you feel this poor man shooting guns and endangering ever man, woman, child and pet Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #138

Drama major? inthewind21 Jan 2022 #162

I beg your pardon. I have degrees in Chemistry, Mathematics and a minor in biology and Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #176

I'm not going to defend the moron who got shot... dsp3000 Jan 2022 #30

The guy was an idiot and paid the price for his actions. The officer did nothing wrong. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #53

This is false on its face, not announcing PD and firing blind through a fence is something wrong uponit7771 Jan 2022 #78

Firstly, there wasn't the slightest chance that the guy could've heard the policeman while firing Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #84

Neither of those reasons mean a death sentence without due process. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #85

This incident has nothing to do with due process or the lack thereof. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #93

This is false on its face, shooting in the air doesn't mean the officer becomes executioner uponit7771 Jan 2022 #96

Does not shooting into the air put people down range at risk of death? Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #102

Of course but not eminent danger of being killed and the reason the officer had to proffer uponit7771 Jan 2022 #103

If the officer could see where the AR was pointed, how could he have been firing "blind", as you Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #108

Don't remember saying the LEO was firing blind, lets say he wasn't shooting blind the ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #110

You said he was firing blind in post #78. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #113

You're right, I forgot about the "through a fence" part which further invalidates the LEOs proffered uponit7771 Jan 2022 #115

Better direct video: Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2022 #56

How many people are killed or maimed every year by "celebratory gunfire?" PTWB Jan 2022 #58

We also could see what I said yesterday, the lack of announcement or orders to stop .... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #79

Thanks for your response. PTWB Jan 2022 #81

None of that means a death sentence without due process uponit7771 Jan 2022 #86

This police shooting was justified. This was not excessive force. PTWB Jan 2022 #88

Not without due process, following policy and fair treatment it was NOT justified. Also "justified" uponit7771 Jan 2022 #89

Due process is not a factor. PTWB Jan 2022 #90

This is false on its face uponit7771 Jan 2022 #91

How? PTWB Jan 2022 #92

The officers justification for shooting, like Chauvin's, doesn't show in the video seeing the weapon uponit7771 Jan 2022 #94

What does that have to do with due process? PTWB Jan 2022 #95

No I'm not, you're arguing amendments I'm arguing established process's and the officers false uponit7771 Jan 2022 #98

What? PTWB Jan 2022 #99

I'm talking about established process's in law enforcement in this situation. One of them is uponit7771 Jan 2022 #101

I see where the confusion arose. PTWB Jan 2022 #104

Everything except the " ... violated fourth amendment and ..." part. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #106

Now I'm really confused. PTWB Jan 2022 #107

No, I don't know how 4th amendment plays a part in this case and it might even be ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #109

I explained that to you earlier in the thread. PTWB Jan 2022 #111

OK, the shooting was unreasonable and LEO reasoning proffered was false. I don't know how that uponit7771 Jan 2022 #114

That isn't how that works, Uponit. PTWB Jan 2022 #118

No, my position is clear without using the tittle and jot & pure diction of law to describe it; ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #121

The officer reasonably believed that the suspect was creating a danger of death or serious injury. PTWB Jan 2022 #124

That's not what the LEO claimed as justification for shooting and you understand "danger of death" uponit7771 Jan 2022 #125

What do you mean? PTWB Jan 2022 #129

We both understand "eminent death" is litmus for shooting, "danger of death" could be anything .. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #192

Surely you mean imminent, yes? PTWB Jan 2022 #193

That word too, and no the shooter wasn't creating an imminent danger of death to the leo, .. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #194

Do you have a copy of the police report or interview with the officer? PTWB Jan 2022 #196

Going by what Chief claimed speaking for the LEO, its in the OP link (quote inside) uponit7771 Jan 2022 #198

Does the article say that the officer did not fear for the lives of those around him? PTWB Jan 2022 #201

The victim in this case is ... NOT ... seen firing a weapon either. Looking at BC footage again ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #206

That's not correct. PTWB Jan 2022 #211

Nah, he didn't see that suspect fire the rifle and that "fireworks to firearms" statement is going uponit7771 Jan 2022 #214

Link to video from OP, nah ... there's no clear view of a firearm and fireworks were legal uponit7771 Jan 2022 #202

Incredible. PTWB Jan 2022 #203

Like I said, I don't feel sorry for the jerk. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2022 #97

+1000, many people here don't care if there was anyone standing by him. USALiberal Jan 2022 #63

The cop managed to shoot only the person firing the gun in the air so it Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #148

Sorry, the cop was wrong. nt USALiberal Jan 2022 #152

No, the cop did exactly what he was supposed to. marie999 Jan 2022 #168

LOL, ok! nt USALiberal Jan 2022 #170

I would agree. While I think guns are out of control. I have owned guns when I lived in the Demsrule86 Jan 2022 #180

I have had a CWP for over 40 years starting in South Florida. marie999 Jan 2022 #226

In the LEOs BC footage there's no weapon to be seen behind the fence (link) and firecrackers uponit7771 Jan 2022 #200

Except you can see a rifle discharging in the vid nt EX500rider Jan 2022 #204

Nope, I don't see a weapon in the video no one can, the fence is too high and its solid ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #208

I didn't say it was a clean shoot EX500rider Jan 2022 #217

Got you, the guys an idiot for shooting up in the air but I don't think that means its a death ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #221

BOOM !!! I knew it and posted this at the time the PD didn't show the BC footage. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author pinkstarburst Jan 2022 #87

No, a bullet shot straight up does NOT have the same speed falling! nt USALiberal Jan 2022 #149

Presuming it's shot at a precise 90 degree angle, it's very unlikely to cause injury. But: Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #155

People have been killed by bullets that were shot in the air. marie999 Jan 2022 #156

They were shot at an angle, not straight up! nt USALiberal Jan 2022 #158

Were all his shots straight up? marie999 Jan 2022 #165

You just made his point. PTWB Jan 2022 #167

I just gotta make ONE comment here bluestarone Jan 2022 #100

THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 Also the guy wasn't presenting an eminent danger to the LEO or anyone else uponit7771 Jan 2022 #112

Don't conflate lack of sympathy for an idiot with a gun for support for shooting through a fence Kaleva Jan 2022 #120

There are too many arguing the shooting was justified, it wasn't on the face of it ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #123

I'm not one of those who claim the shooting was justified. Kaleva Jan 2022 #130

Agreed Red Mountain Jan 2022 #128

Agreed - nt Ohio Joe Jan 2022 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author inthewind21 Jan 2022 #171

Amazing inthewind21 Jan 2022 #172

As has already been explained multiple times in this thread, due process did not apply in this Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #179

Experts weigh in: Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #131

Nice try! USALiberal Jan 2022 #143

Well... If the repug AG of Ohio says not to question cops... Ohio Joe Jan 2022 #160

Its not surprising these folks are giving the killer cop the benefit of the doubt SYFROYH Jan 2022 #186

LEO stated in the report that "I was afraid for *MY* life" and excuse of "others" wasn't stated .. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #197

Oh, now you do have access to the report? PTWB Jan 2022 #205

No, again ... its his Chief speaking for him uponit7771 Jan 2022 #207

My mistake. PTWB Jan 2022 #210

Cop shouldn't have shot through the fence Bettie Jan 2022 #137

The cop fucked up by not announcing. Plus he saw the shots were going up in the air. The city will Celerity Jan 2022 #177

+1, I just looked at the video there's no barrel above the fence so how does the LEO even uponit7771 Jan 2022 #199

Uponit, please don't do this. PTWB Jan 2022 #209

Unn, I saw the wrong video from another thread or another post on this story but there's no uponit7771 Jan 2022 #212

How tall was the officer? PTWB Jan 2022 #213

Not taller than the bottom of the window it seems, I've changed my position to hard wait. I read uponit7771 Jan 2022 #215

We're just approaching this from two completely different viewpoints. PTWB Jan 2022 #219

No, my claim is I don't see a weapon on the other side of the fence ... PERIOD. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #222

I see where we're getting off track. PTWB Jan 2022 #223

We'll see, the initial report was skewed towards the police and I got the impression that a weapon uponit7771 Jan 2022 #224

The weapon was seen by police. PTWB Jan 2022 #225

There's no proof it was seen by the police at the time of the shooting, BC footage doesn't show uponit7771 Jan 2022 #227

Yes there is proof that the weapon was seen by the police. PTWB Jan 2022 #228

"The body camera picked up the muzzle blasts", I don't see a weapon. There's no amount of uponit7771 Jan 2022 #229

What do you think muzzle blasts are produced by if not a firearm? PTWB Jan 2022 #230

I don't see a muzzle in the video and there was opportunity to deescalate if there was uponit7771 Jan 2022 #231

You see numerous muzzle blasts in the video, yes? PTWB Jan 2022 #232

In the video I posted I see numerous blast and don't see a muzzle at all uponit7771 Jan 2022 #233

So you see the muzzle blasts. Good. PTWB Jan 2022 #234

No, I see blast you're defining them as muzzle blasts .. I don't see a weapon in the BC footage uponit7771 Jan 2022 #235

They're unequivocally muzzle blasts. PTWB Jan 2022 #236

Nah, could've easily been a fireworks cake ... can't see a muzzle. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #237

Goodness. PTWB Jan 2022 #238

Perhaps it was a high capacity semiautomatic Roman Candle. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #239

I'm at a loss here. PTWB Jan 2022 #240

In my experience, there is no argument so absurd that someone will not make it on the Internet Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #243

Indeed. This one takes the fireworks cake. PTWB Jan 2022 #244

Oh yeah, the LEO better be ready to defend against that seeing Williams didn't die near a gun uponit7771 Jan 2022 #241

Have a look at the video here. PTWB Jan 2022 #242

Alright, I don't and I used to clean M16 muzzles as part of MOS. This shooting isn't clean enough uponit7771 Jan 2022 #246

This shooting is completely justified by every legal standard. PTWB Jan 2022 #247

Nah, LEO needlessly used deadly force he can't even argue he was in danger seeing no proof ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #248

We will see indeed. PTWB Jan 2022 #249

"There is no debate about whether or not the suspect was shooting." Yes there is, there's no proof uponit7771 Jan 2022 #250

The officer could see his head on the other side of the fence. PTWB Jan 2022 #251

I don't see **WILLIAMS** head behind fence at time of shooting in BC video, and the LEO didn't say uponit7771 Jan 2022 #252

We've already established that what you see is not what the officer saw. PTWB Jan 2022 #253

"... He said he could see the suspect's head over the fence...." Could you point this out? tia uponit7771 Jan 2022 #254

Did you watch the video? PTWB Jan 2022 #255

I'm referring to at the time of the shooting could he see the person shooting was Williams, I don't uponit7771 Jan 2022 #256

That just doesn't make any sense to me. PTWB Jan 2022 #257

No, he didn't say he could ID the person on the other side of the fence once he rounded the corner uponit7771 Jan 2022 #258

Are you claiming someone else was the shooter now, or do you acknowledge that it was Williams? PTWB Jan 2022 #260

I don't know if it was Williams, I don't see his face on the other side of the fence and the LEO ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #261

FIREWORKS CAKE AGAIN! PTWB Jan 2022 #262

YES, I'm not taking any word of this PD because their push was BS. They didn't do what the ABA uponit7771 Jan 2022 #263

So you think that someone other than Williams was shot by the police? PTWB Jan 2022 #264

No, I'm sure Williams was hit by LEO bullet ... or hell, even one of his own I'm just not ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #265

What's your alternate theory then? PTWB Jan 2022 #266

1 would be Williams was hit by his own bullet or someone firing randomly in that hood ... uponit7771 Jan 2022 #267

Amazing! PTWB Jan 2022 #268

That's an important factor madville Jan 2022 #216

Indeed. PTWB Jan 2022 #220

One less idiot in the world madville Jan 2022 #218

Bottom line: Both the cop and the shooter made tragic errors. LuckyCharms Jan 2022 #245

4 is what I get sick of, that's sloppy policing. I'm not surprised at idiots doing idiot crap but .. uponit7771 Jan 2022 #259