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NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
33. As in my example, the apple hole is infinitely deep
Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:59 PM
Oct 2012

As follows, the amount of energy it takes to harvest apple energy approaches infinity as the depth of the hole approaches infinity.

The basic concept is Energy Returned on Energy Invested (ERORI).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested

Even if a resource is infinite (and oil is not), it doesn't make its availability to a society infinite at any given time.

100 years ago, you could put a straw in the ground and get oil out in certain areas. At that time, it took the energy found in 1 barrel of oil to produce 90 more barrels of energy.

Today we are burning bitumen sand (3:1) and drilling at the bottom of the ocean; the low hanging fruit has been picked. Our EROEI has dropped dramatically as far as oil production is concerned.

So the amount that is available to harvest (or being harvested) becomes irrelevant, as that is one part of a multi-faceted equation. Rather, we need to look at (vastly simplified):

(what is being harvested) - (energy it takes to harvest it) / (the average usage per capita * population level)

So what we know is that the average usage per human is skyrocketing, as is the population. Further, we know that the ERORI for oil production has dropped at least by a factor of 3 in the last 100 years (maybe 4). This leaves the amount of available energy per capita dwindling, explaining precisely why the industrial world is in a global economic decline (in both production and wealth).

This is a problem we cannot drill our way out of (because harvesting hydrocarbons will always take more energy the more your harvest), unless we magically innovate a method to convince the oil to rise to the surface of our lawns so Jeb can make a fortune and move to Beverly Hills.

Got it?

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

what, Some conservatives are understanding cause and effect?????? hollysmom Oct 2012 #1
how can this truth be so obvious, even to someone like him RepublicansRZombies Oct 2012 #2
Moreover, WHAT have THEY done about it? Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2012 #7
It's like they suggest we all take up yoga. closeupready Oct 2012 #10
Or just indict them in the ICC! Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2012 #11
Du rec. Nt xchrom Oct 2012 #3
And yet so many have no clue what it's like. JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #4
Like many other situations, you can't really understand it until you've lived it. Arkansas Granny Oct 2012 #9
Mom, is that you? Art_from_Ark Oct 2012 #43
No, they sure don't. GoCubsGo Oct 2012 #14
never been without insurance for long hollysmom Oct 2012 #27
K&R n/t OneGrassRoot Oct 2012 #5
Cheap, plentiful energy is the real key. NoOneMan Oct 2012 #6
"The party is over" Why? Corporations and Bankers are doing better than ever. RepublicansRZombies Oct 2012 #13
Because there is finite energy NoOneMan Oct 2012 #15
oh, baloney. first, there never was a 'party' except for the rich. second, they're still partying. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #19
It means per capita wealth will decline NoOneMan Oct 2012 #20
not any time soon. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #21
Its already happening NoOneMan Oct 2012 #22
at the moment, known supplies of oil are increasing. which means that 'wealth' by your definition HiPointDem Oct 2012 #30
As in my example, the apple hole is infinitely deep NoOneMan Oct 2012 #33
it may be deep or shallow; my point is that it's not happening at present. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #34
I believe this illustrates exactly how bad our problem is NoOneMan Oct 2012 #36
all that typing to combat your own straw men. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #37
A straw man is a misrepresentation of an opponent's position NoOneMan Oct 2012 #41
"A straw man is a misrepresentation of an opponent's position" = yes. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #42
It really hit home for me a couple years ago when it dawned on me how many closed stores I walked... ieoeja Oct 2012 #8
It's the Main Street economy. This is why we are still not entirely sure that the President Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #12
The problem is the bailouts and stimulus saved corporations and banks, not Main Street. davidn3600 Oct 2012 #16
Exactly. And it's not like we didn't predict this four years ago. Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #17
The American People Buy Into The Bullshit That America Is "Broke" Yavin4 Oct 2012 #18
In pictorial form: coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #38
"The economy" is cruel..."no matter what our politicians have tried." woo me with science Oct 2012 #23
+1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #39
"When I say I believe in a square deal I do not mean to give every man the best hand. trouble.smith Oct 2012 #44
kick RepublicansRZombies Oct 2012 #24
537 Votes in Florida and 5-4 in the Supreme Court gulliver Oct 2012 #25
K&R woo me with science Oct 2012 #26
The Cheney/Bush economic legacy. (nt) Kurovski Oct 2012 #28
Good stuff. Thanks for posting. nt ProudProgressiveNow Oct 2012 #29
I'm in that "40%".. SomethingFishy Oct 2012 #31
Sorry to read this. It is far too common a story. n/t Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #32
that sucks!! RepublicansRZombies Oct 2012 #35
Emphatic K&R! - n/t coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #40
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