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Samrob

(4,298 posts)

35. I posted this in another thread but it seems to fit better here. Sorry.

Reply to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Fri Mar 11, 2022, 06:11 PM

Mar 2022

In 1995 in central Europe, Bosnian Serbs had begun wiping out the largely Muslim population in their own country. That July, violence reached a climax when Bosnian Serb soldiers overran the city of Srebrenica and murdered more than 8,000 defenseless men and boys. "That was a real shock for everyone," says Kofi Annan, U.N. Secretary-General. "And for that to happen in Europe, many decades after World War II, was something that nobody could sit back and swallow." In response, President Clinton initiated Operation Deliberate Force, a massive NATO military response. "He didn't blink," National Security Coordinator Richard Clarke said. "We knew that day that we had a commander-in-chief who was rational and comfortable with the use of force." As relevant today concerning Ukraine as then concerning Bosnia.

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NATO must go to war against Putin now, with the US and Biden... [View all] Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 OP

still nope. WarGamer Mar 2022 #1

So, who is the author of the stuff at that poorly designed website? MineralMan Mar 2022 #2

Thanks for linking to another poorly 48656c6c6f20 Mar 2022 #36

You're welcome. MineralMan Mar 2022 #37

Probably true. ColinC Mar 2022 #3

What is "Berlin airlift style"? dumbcat Mar 2022 #5

Russia won't oppose it. ColinC Mar 2022 #12

Right! dumbcat Mar 2022 #14

There just needs to be an immediate consequence for them to follow through. Otherwise they will keep ColinC Mar 2022 #15

No Russia won't oppose it. They want as many Ukrainians to leaves as possible. They then intend PortTack Mar 2022 #24

The Berlin airlift was to drop humanitarian supplies, not fight a war. Nt Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #7

Same thing. ColinC Mar 2022 #13

So are we seriously discussing nuclear warfare? That's a real loser for mankind. hadEnuf Mar 2022 #4

Not necessarily- NATO could defend Ukraine effectively without using nukes Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #6

Exactly pbmus Mar 2022 #11

There are a multitude of other scenarios that may Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #19

If NATO doesn't get into a war against Putin now, they are destined to after Ukraine falls Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #83

In your opinion Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #87

There is no decision if Putin attacks a NATO country. That invokes Article 5. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #34

Well, there is those pesky fact things, but Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #90

Not necessarily? So...maybe? Iggo Mar 2022 #58

No, the current worry is that all bets are off if NATO steps in. hadEnuf Mar 2022 #157

If the Ukraine war ends with Putin still in power, NATO will still have to fight him eventually. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #159

Sorry but no. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #8

We have to stand up to the bully... pbmus Mar 2022 #9

We have been Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #20

When the bully is hitting you... pbmus Mar 2022 #30

You need to contact Biden right away sarisataka Mar 2022 #38

+1000 Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #40

Sorry but we are in WW3... pbmus Mar 2022 #44

That's why you need to reach out sarisataka Mar 2022 #52

He has too many Neville's around him... pbmus Mar 2022 #54

Ah! Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #39

The warhead on the stingers and javelins are filled with more than words. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #43

Obviously, Not hard enough... pbmus Mar 2022 #60

How is that obvious? Gore1FL Mar 2022 #62

I am going to say it again....NATO NEEDS TO DO MORE pbmus Mar 2022 #67

What and why? Gore1FL Mar 2022 #69

Time is a construct used by the living. pbmus Mar 2022 #74

Keep using that construct. Living sounds like a good side effect. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #75

Tell that to the thousands that have died in putties war. pbmus Mar 2022 #77

I am sorry for their deaths. Explain to me how ratchetting up the body count helps them. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #80

Bullies do not stop with words. pbmus Mar 2022 #82

That's why we are providing Ukraine with all of those things previously mentioned. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #89

Here's a suggestion, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #131

When are you heading over? BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #88

My family has already fought and died on that continent and pbmus Mar 2022 #92

Mine did too. BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #97

Except that the bully is not hitting me Polybius Mar 2022 #128

This isn't grade school! Nt USALiberal Mar 2022 #135

ok lol nt Torchlight Mar 2022 #148

My father told me to never gamble what you can't afford to lose. Chainfire Mar 2022 #10

We can't afford to lose democracy Deuxcents Mar 2022 #26

We are helping in a lot of ways. It's successful so far. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #45

How are we going to lose anything to Russia, unless they launch nukes? Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #49

Except Mussolini didn't have nukes. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #86

Nothing to work with here n/t Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #146

Your title is the key. We have a good leadership team making calculated decistions on how to go Chainfire Mar 2022 #124

There are two periods were thermonulear war may break out as a result of this war Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #147

Good succinct way of putting it n/t Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #41

NO Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #16

I agree rockfordfile Mar 2022 #18

100% agree. nt MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #132

Have you told your family you decided that they are worth sacrificing? Kaleva Mar 2022 #17

That is a terrible thing to say to a fellow DUer. Stinky The Clown Mar 2022 #22

I asked a question. Aren't you curious? Kaleva Mar 2022 #28

That is also assuming the use of nukes... pbmus Mar 2022 #47

It's like playing Russian Roulette. Kaleva Mar 2022 #73

So this is exactly what the murderer puttie wants you to think pbmus Mar 2022 #79

In the end, it doesn't matter what I think Kaleva Mar 2022 #109

It's reality. The nuclear risk is not a matter of opinion. hadEnuf Mar 2022 #160

It is a very valid question Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #42

You're assuming I'm advocating for nuclear war, or that Putin will definitely respond with nukes Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #98

I didn't say it was a forgone conclusion Kaleva Mar 2022 #105

On one point I COMPLETELY agree with you. If Biden is not reelected, we are likely to be out of NATO Stinky The Clown Mar 2022 #21

Well if we're out of NATO and a war breaks out, won't that mean we won't be involved in it? Polybius Mar 2022 #130

So first of all, this scenario sees this war continuing tavernier Mar 2022 #23

+1000 PortTack Mar 2022 #25

The mention of the Big Con in the discussion is valid pbmus Mar 2022 #48

Step out your front door and look around your neighborhood sarisataka Mar 2022 #27

Why "surely" is this an eventuality, and why is time on Putin's side? Gore1FL Mar 2022 #29

Death and destruction is the major reasons you go to war... pbmus Mar 2022 #61

And avoiding those things if at all possible is why you don't jump to do so. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #63

That ship sailed on February 24th...2022 pbmus Mar 2022 #65

NATO didn't go to war on Feb 24, 2022. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #71

Nope. nt BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #31

No way. Elessar Zappa Mar 2022 #32

Completely insane. David__77 Mar 2022 #33

I posted this in another thread but it seems to fit better here. Sorry. Samrob Mar 2022 #35

Did Bosnia have nukes? Iggo Mar 2022 #59

Nope, let Germany, Italy and France send in ground troops first if the EU wants a war Shanti Shanti Shanti Mar 2022 #46

Neville rises again.. pbmus Mar 2022 #50

Neville Chamberlain took the only course available to him at the time Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #57

Words and more words while real people died and are dying today... pbmus Mar 2022 #64

The points you make, against 'appeasement' and whatnot, would be arguable, even meritorious.... DemocraticPatriot Mar 2022 #136

And rearm they did, in record time. Chamberlain did the right thing. Mariana Mar 2022 #81

Full stop. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #68

History repeats itself ... pbmus Mar 2022 #70

Explain how the two are similar. Explain it to me like I am six. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #72

If you are so terribly interested in this war and getting involved Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #96

Here is the contact info for the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington, DC. Mariana Mar 2022 #107

Thanks, but I'm not the one that needs it. Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #113

I apologize, I didn't mean it for you. Mariana Mar 2022 #117

Thanks! Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #118

Best way to prevent WWIII, is not to start WWIII, "EU won't sanction Russian gas and oil" Shanti Shanti Shanti Mar 2022 #101

that's like taking a hand grenade... pulling the pin and dropping it at your feet. WarGamer Mar 2022 #51

Molly McKew is a very problematic warmonger and an ex RW American Enterprise Institute collaborator Celerity Mar 2022 #93

thanks for all the info, Celerity! WarGamer Mar 2022 #127

and yet I am sure her ill-informed incendiary claptrap will continue to be put up simply Celerity Mar 2022 #139

Thanks for your research! MineralMan Mar 2022 #150

YW, MM Celerity Mar 2022 #151

No, no and no JCMach1 Mar 2022 #53

Sir! Yes, sir! Iggo Mar 2022 #55

This message was self-deleted by its author Iggo Mar 2022 #56

Russia would be crushed in a conventional war right now NickB79 Mar 2022 #66

Which exactly is why he would escalate to tactical nukes if NATO stepped in Bucky Mar 2022 #78

Oh so your suggestion is to let him roll over Ukraine and then what...? pbmus Mar 2022 #85

I don't think that is anyone's suggestion. It's disingenuous for you to frame it that way. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #94

About As Disingenuous Than Claiming... ruet Mar 2022 #99

It would start WWIII Gore1FL Mar 2022 #112

I fully support Biden's handling of this. Bucky Mar 2022 #95

If you haven't noticed, he's NOT rolling over Ukraine NickB79 Mar 2022 #103

Jesus Christ, it is a breath of fresh air to see posts like yours, Buckys and others Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #143

Putin is not "rolling over Ukraine"... DemocraticPatriot Mar 2022 #129

Grab a rifle.... Willto Mar 2022 #144

The most dangerous bear is a wounded bear n/t Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #142

I love your passion and ideals, but it's a terrible idea Bucky Mar 2022 #76

That's assuming there is no resistance in chain of command to Putin's possible order to use nukes. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #114

What's going on in Ukraine is horrible. It's not genocide. Bucky Mar 2022 #119

Genocide: Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #120

Dude, you're embarrassing yourself Bucky Mar 2022 #121

I don't mind being embarrassed if it raises awareness and saves lives. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #123

Maybe the folks ForgedCrank Mar 2022 #84

Agreed Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #91

Hard to imagine people think this way. left-of-center2012 Mar 2022 #100

Again, if we don't "risk WWIII" defending Ukraine, the world will still have to take that risk, soon Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #102

Nope left-of-center2012 Mar 2022 #104

Yeah, how foolish of me to oppose genocide. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #108

Whatever left-of-center2012 Mar 2022 #110

Maybe they will have to risk it, and maybe they won't... DemocraticPatriot Mar 2022 #133

Why is escalation the only option???? CrackityJones75 Mar 2022 #106

Either NATO can escalate on their terms, or Putin will on his. Escalation can't be avoided Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #111

Why is escalation unavoidable? If anything, he will be forced to withdraw. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #115

Have you noticed Putin's goals and strategies have changed? Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #116

Right now, the dynamic is against Russia in all ways. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #125

The body bags are filling quickly with dead Ukrainians Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #126

We aren't dithering. We are moving along with the same effective strategy in play all along. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #137

Putin's strategy has shifted in the last 24 hours- he seems less interested in "taking" Ukraine Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #138

He is desperate. His ability to do so diminishes each day. The strategy is working. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #140

You are exactly why I prefer experienced adults running our foreign policy, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #134

. Iggo Mar 2022 #141

As much as my heart truly breaks for Ukrainians, the US should not be pulled into In It to Win It Mar 2022 #122

Still wondering if u informed your family u decided they were expendable Kaleva Mar 2022 #145

Why in such a hurry to start WWIII? Chainfire Mar 2022 #149

There is really no reason to. Oneironaut Mar 2022 #152

Putin's strategy appears to have shifted in last 24 hours, from occupation to death & destruction Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #153

Dear Fiendish Thingy...we often disagree in some areas...but you are one of my favorite DU'ers. Demsrule86 Mar 2022 #154

Thanks for the kind words, Demsrule, you made my day. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #155

DEFINITELY do not agree! jmowreader Mar 2022 #156

Wouldn't that be considered a war crime? Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #158

Maybe a "crime against humanity" jmowreader Mar 2022 #161