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hadEnuf

(3,605 posts)

157. No, the current worry is that all bets are off if NATO steps in.

Sat Mar 12, 2022, 04:53 PM

Mar 2022

We then have a possible direct confrontation with US / NATO and Russian forces, whether opinion piece writers think so or not. That changes the rules for everyone and would actually give Putin cover to start messing with NATO countries. Once that happens we are required to step in further and then all it takes is for the losing side to use 1 tactical nuke. That then legitimizes their usage and it becomes a case of retaliation in kind. Any other expectation is basically hoping that a lit match thrown into a pool of gasoline will somehow not ignite it.

Maybe you or the author are unfamiliar with the cold war but nothing ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union, just the likelihood of it becoming a hot war. We both still have the power to wipe each other out 5 times over and the protocol for using nukes is still basically the same as it always was. We are all playing with fire if we start deluding ourselves into thinking that everything has changed.

Biden has stated that American forces involved in Ukraine basically amounts to WWIII and he is 100% correct.

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NATO must go to war against Putin now, with the US and Biden... [View all] Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 OP

still nope. WarGamer Mar 2022 #1

So, who is the author of the stuff at that poorly designed website? MineralMan Mar 2022 #2

Thanks for linking to another poorly 48656c6c6f20 Mar 2022 #36

You're welcome. MineralMan Mar 2022 #37

Probably true. ColinC Mar 2022 #3

What is "Berlin airlift style"? dumbcat Mar 2022 #5

Russia won't oppose it. ColinC Mar 2022 #12

Right! dumbcat Mar 2022 #14

There just needs to be an immediate consequence for them to follow through. Otherwise they will keep ColinC Mar 2022 #15

No Russia won't oppose it. They want as many Ukrainians to leaves as possible. They then intend PortTack Mar 2022 #24

The Berlin airlift was to drop humanitarian supplies, not fight a war. Nt Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #7

Same thing. ColinC Mar 2022 #13

So are we seriously discussing nuclear warfare? That's a real loser for mankind. hadEnuf Mar 2022 #4

Not necessarily- NATO could defend Ukraine effectively without using nukes Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #6

Exactly pbmus Mar 2022 #11

There are a multitude of other scenarios that may Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #19

If NATO doesn't get into a war against Putin now, they are destined to after Ukraine falls Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #83

In your opinion Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #87

There is no decision if Putin attacks a NATO country. That invokes Article 5. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #34

Well, there is those pesky fact things, but Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #90

Not necessarily? So...maybe? Iggo Mar 2022 #58

No, the current worry is that all bets are off if NATO steps in. hadEnuf Mar 2022 #157

If the Ukraine war ends with Putin still in power, NATO will still have to fight him eventually. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #159

Sorry but no. SoonerPride Mar 2022 #8

We have to stand up to the bully... pbmus Mar 2022 #9

We have been Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #20

When the bully is hitting you... pbmus Mar 2022 #30

You need to contact Biden right away sarisataka Mar 2022 #38

+1000 Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #40

Sorry but we are in WW3... pbmus Mar 2022 #44

That's why you need to reach out sarisataka Mar 2022 #52

He has too many Neville's around him... pbmus Mar 2022 #54

Ah! Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #39

The warhead on the stingers and javelins are filled with more than words. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #43

Obviously, Not hard enough... pbmus Mar 2022 #60

How is that obvious? Gore1FL Mar 2022 #62

I am going to say it again....NATO NEEDS TO DO MORE pbmus Mar 2022 #67

What and why? Gore1FL Mar 2022 #69

Time is a construct used by the living. pbmus Mar 2022 #74

Keep using that construct. Living sounds like a good side effect. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #75

Tell that to the thousands that have died in putties war. pbmus Mar 2022 #77

I am sorry for their deaths. Explain to me how ratchetting up the body count helps them. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #80

Bullies do not stop with words. pbmus Mar 2022 #82

That's why we are providing Ukraine with all of those things previously mentioned. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #89

Here's a suggestion, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #131

When are you heading over? BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #88

My family has already fought and died on that continent and pbmus Mar 2022 #92

Mine did too. BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #97

Except that the bully is not hitting me Polybius Mar 2022 #128

This isn't grade school! Nt USALiberal Mar 2022 #135

ok lol nt Torchlight Mar 2022 #148

My father told me to never gamble what you can't afford to lose. Chainfire Mar 2022 #10

We can't afford to lose democracy Deuxcents Mar 2022 #26

We are helping in a lot of ways. It's successful so far. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #45

How are we going to lose anything to Russia, unless they launch nukes? Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #49

Except Mussolini didn't have nukes. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #86

Nothing to work with here n/t Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #146

Your title is the key. We have a good leadership team making calculated decistions on how to go Chainfire Mar 2022 #124

There are two periods were thermonulear war may break out as a result of this war Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #147

Good succinct way of putting it n/t Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #41

NO Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #16

I agree rockfordfile Mar 2022 #18

100% agree. nt MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #132

Have you told your family you decided that they are worth sacrificing? Kaleva Mar 2022 #17

That is a terrible thing to say to a fellow DUer. Stinky The Clown Mar 2022 #22

I asked a question. Aren't you curious? Kaleva Mar 2022 #28

That is also assuming the use of nukes... pbmus Mar 2022 #47

It's like playing Russian Roulette. Kaleva Mar 2022 #73

So this is exactly what the murderer puttie wants you to think pbmus Mar 2022 #79

In the end, it doesn't matter what I think Kaleva Mar 2022 #109

It's reality. The nuclear risk is not a matter of opinion. hadEnuf Mar 2022 #160

It is a very valid question Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #42

You're assuming I'm advocating for nuclear war, or that Putin will definitely respond with nukes Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #98

I didn't say it was a forgone conclusion Kaleva Mar 2022 #105

On one point I COMPLETELY agree with you. If Biden is not reelected, we are likely to be out of NATO Stinky The Clown Mar 2022 #21

Well if we're out of NATO and a war breaks out, won't that mean we won't be involved in it? Polybius Mar 2022 #130

So first of all, this scenario sees this war continuing tavernier Mar 2022 #23

+1000 PortTack Mar 2022 #25

The mention of the Big Con in the discussion is valid pbmus Mar 2022 #48

Step out your front door and look around your neighborhood sarisataka Mar 2022 #27

Why "surely" is this an eventuality, and why is time on Putin's side? Gore1FL Mar 2022 #29

Death and destruction is the major reasons you go to war... pbmus Mar 2022 #61

And avoiding those things if at all possible is why you don't jump to do so. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #63

That ship sailed on February 24th...2022 pbmus Mar 2022 #65

NATO didn't go to war on Feb 24, 2022. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #71

Nope. nt BlackSkimmer Mar 2022 #31

No way. Elessar Zappa Mar 2022 #32

Completely insane. David__77 Mar 2022 #33

I posted this in another thread but it seems to fit better here. Sorry. Samrob Mar 2022 #35

Did Bosnia have nukes? Iggo Mar 2022 #59

Nope, let Germany, Italy and France send in ground troops first if the EU wants a war Shanti Shanti Shanti Mar 2022 #46

Neville rises again.. pbmus Mar 2022 #50

Neville Chamberlain took the only course available to him at the time Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #57

Words and more words while real people died and are dying today... pbmus Mar 2022 #64

The points you make, against 'appeasement' and whatnot, would be arguable, even meritorious.... DemocraticPatriot Mar 2022 #136

And rearm they did, in record time. Chamberlain did the right thing. Mariana Mar 2022 #81

Full stop. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #68

History repeats itself ... pbmus Mar 2022 #70

Explain how the two are similar. Explain it to me like I am six. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #72

If you are so terribly interested in this war and getting involved Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #96

Here is the contact info for the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington, DC. Mariana Mar 2022 #107

Thanks, but I'm not the one that needs it. Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #113

I apologize, I didn't mean it for you. Mariana Mar 2022 #117

Thanks! Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #118

Best way to prevent WWIII, is not to start WWIII, "EU won't sanction Russian gas and oil" Shanti Shanti Shanti Mar 2022 #101

that's like taking a hand grenade... pulling the pin and dropping it at your feet. WarGamer Mar 2022 #51

Molly McKew is a very problematic warmonger and an ex RW American Enterprise Institute collaborator Celerity Mar 2022 #93

thanks for all the info, Celerity! WarGamer Mar 2022 #127

and yet I am sure her ill-informed incendiary claptrap will continue to be put up simply Celerity Mar 2022 #139

Thanks for your research! MineralMan Mar 2022 #150

YW, MM Celerity Mar 2022 #151

No, no and no JCMach1 Mar 2022 #53

Sir! Yes, sir! Iggo Mar 2022 #55

This message was self-deleted by its author Iggo Mar 2022 #56

Russia would be crushed in a conventional war right now NickB79 Mar 2022 #66

Which exactly is why he would escalate to tactical nukes if NATO stepped in Bucky Mar 2022 #78

Oh so your suggestion is to let him roll over Ukraine and then what...? pbmus Mar 2022 #85

I don't think that is anyone's suggestion. It's disingenuous for you to frame it that way. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #94

About As Disingenuous Than Claiming... ruet Mar 2022 #99

It would start WWIII Gore1FL Mar 2022 #112

I fully support Biden's handling of this. Bucky Mar 2022 #95

If you haven't noticed, he's NOT rolling over Ukraine NickB79 Mar 2022 #103

Jesus Christ, it is a breath of fresh air to see posts like yours, Buckys and others Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #143

Putin is not "rolling over Ukraine"... DemocraticPatriot Mar 2022 #129

Grab a rifle.... Willto Mar 2022 #144

The most dangerous bear is a wounded bear n/t Strelnikov_ Mar 2022 #142

I love your passion and ideals, but it's a terrible idea Bucky Mar 2022 #76

That's assuming there is no resistance in chain of command to Putin's possible order to use nukes. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #114

What's going on in Ukraine is horrible. It's not genocide. Bucky Mar 2022 #119

Genocide: Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #120

Dude, you're embarrassing yourself Bucky Mar 2022 #121

I don't mind being embarrassed if it raises awareness and saves lives. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #123

Maybe the folks ForgedCrank Mar 2022 #84

Agreed Sherman A1 Mar 2022 #91

Hard to imagine people think this way. left-of-center2012 Mar 2022 #100

Again, if we don't "risk WWIII" defending Ukraine, the world will still have to take that risk, soon Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #102

Nope left-of-center2012 Mar 2022 #104

Yeah, how foolish of me to oppose genocide. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #108

Whatever left-of-center2012 Mar 2022 #110

Maybe they will have to risk it, and maybe they won't... DemocraticPatriot Mar 2022 #133

Why is escalation the only option???? CrackityJones75 Mar 2022 #106

Either NATO can escalate on their terms, or Putin will on his. Escalation can't be avoided Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #111

Why is escalation unavoidable? If anything, he will be forced to withdraw. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #115

Have you noticed Putin's goals and strategies have changed? Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #116

Right now, the dynamic is against Russia in all ways. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #125

The body bags are filling quickly with dead Ukrainians Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #126

We aren't dithering. We are moving along with the same effective strategy in play all along. Gore1FL Mar 2022 #137

Putin's strategy has shifted in the last 24 hours- he seems less interested in "taking" Ukraine Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #138

He is desperate. His ability to do so diminishes each day. The strategy is working. nt Gore1FL Mar 2022 #140

You are exactly why I prefer experienced adults running our foreign policy, MarineCombatEngineer Mar 2022 #134

. Iggo Mar 2022 #141

As much as my heart truly breaks for Ukrainians, the US should not be pulled into In It to Win It Mar 2022 #122

Still wondering if u informed your family u decided they were expendable Kaleva Mar 2022 #145

Why in such a hurry to start WWIII? Chainfire Mar 2022 #149

There is really no reason to. Oneironaut Mar 2022 #152

Putin's strategy appears to have shifted in last 24 hours, from occupation to death & destruction Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #153

Dear Fiendish Thingy...we often disagree in some areas...but you are one of my favorite DU'ers. Demsrule86 Mar 2022 #154

Thanks for the kind words, Demsrule, you made my day. Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #155

DEFINITELY do not agree! jmowreader Mar 2022 #156

Wouldn't that be considered a war crime? Fiendish Thingy Mar 2022 #158

Maybe a "crime against humanity" jmowreader Mar 2022 #161