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In reply to the discussion: If this is how NATO treats their NATO partners when they get invaded [View all]EndlessWire
(8,103 posts)Those that are "partners" all want in as rapidly as possible. That's because Russia is a big threatening bully. Without neighboring countries and NATO, Ukraine would have been done by now. NATO and friends sent them billions of dollars worth of war materials. To their credit, Ukrainians are fighting like hell, and refusing to give up or surrender. They are competent fighters, and making good use of what they are receiving.
We are sitting here watching a whole country be decimated by the neighborhood bully. Why? Because people are afraid of WW3 fought with nukes. So, even though we also have nukes, we can't have boots on the ground, or have a shoot em up with Russia. Putin knows that, because WE TOLD HIM. He tested the limits, and now he knows what he can do.
The Russians shot up ships and sank some, but nothing happened to them. Nothing will happen to them. There are few people who think that Putin will stop with Ukraine. He'll reconstitute his army and go again. Then, we'll get treated to more brutal conquest in other countries that are weaker militarily.
This desire to join NATO is not new for Ukraine. They were working for it, cleaning up their act, and attempting to qualify. Originally, that was the excuse that Russia declared, their "fear" of having NATO neighbors. This was a lie, and then they switched to saving Donbas, or denazification, or demilitarizing Ukraine, or the alleged "biowarfare labs," or the "nuclear labs," or any other damned excuse for their aggression. IMO, the real reason is so they can gain the seaports and control the Azov Sea. They want that corridor. They are also working to take over Georgia.
We are in a pickle. We can't show fear of Putin. We can't let him control us with fear of a nuclear war. Sure, we'd be stupid not to fear it, but we can't let Xi and Putin become the masters of the world.
NATO is already fighting WW3, we just don't recognize it. It is an incremental war, but there are tactics being used, armaments, and attempted diplomacy. The UN is defining the sides by their voting for resolutions. People are already divided there into friendly and unfriendly. People just think that because there are no boots actually on the ground in Ukraine other than people living there, they are safe, when in reality the entire world is at risk because of that one man, and one government.
There is absolutely no reason to make some rule that Putin can't be touched, or Russia can't be touched. They can be. What Putin is doing in Mariupol is the same as any concentration camp, any ghetto created. And, we are on the sidelines watching.
They always say that as soon as the conversation devolves into Hitler comparisons that it should end. But, look at the perspective. Putin is a modern day Hitler. He really is. He is carrying out the same, horrifying crap that Hitler did. And, we are doing the same things that we did last time. The US supplied Britain with military materials in WW2 before we HAD TO JOIN in the fight. When Japan breached that line, it was on. So, I hear Ukraine pleading that the line has been breached in their country. And, we are just watching, the same way we did before we had to join in WW2. It's just that we are being pulled over the line, little by little. I think that Russia is counting on both China and India to back them, push come to shove with the US and NATO.
So, IMO, it doesn't much matter whether a country is a member, a partner, or some stupid country just waiting for the outcome. We are all involved in it. Let's face it. We need to capture Putin. Why he did this, we'll never know, except that power corrupts. Whatever we think we learned about Hitler, we can apply to Putin. Never in my lifetime did I think that this would happen. You can't be friendly with someone like this. There is nothing to save here.
I'd move up the G20 summit schedule. Why are they holding it in October? I'd extend that invitation to him, and nab him there. It would not be a dirty deed. It would be saving the world.
Same thing for Lukashenko.
I probably didn't fully understand your comments. I am just truly viscerally upset over the thought of little kids starving to death because of Putin's desire to own their seaport. I know a measure of someone's character is how they treat other people during times of disaster or distress. I trust Joe Biden to do the right thing. But, almost daily my anger compels me to imagine Moscow bombed to rubble. Good thing I am not President.
And, I live on the WC of the US, and so when the missiles fly, I'll probably go in the first volley. If I don't, I'll be out there following orders. Nothing much else I can do. The only other thing I can think of is to make sure to GOTV. Having a Republican president will probably kill me, anyway.