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In reply to the discussion: Gingrich on ABC: 'GET OVER IT' Mourdock’s Rape Comments Are What ‘Virtually Every Catholic’ Believes [View all]msanthrope
(37,549 posts)37. Yes, it does. Since the Council of Carthage XVI in 418. St. Augustine wrote the Canon.
Augustine rejected the Pelagian heresy of Limbo, and wrote specifically on this---I have found an English translation/synopsis of the Council of Carthage, since I am assuming you do not read Latin or Greek.
3a. It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: In my house there are many mansions [John 14:2]: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema. For when the Lord says: Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God [John 3:5], what Catholic will doubt that he will be a partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a coheir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run into the left [cf. Matt. 25:41,46].
http://www.romancatholicism.org/jansenism/augustine-approvals.htm
http://www.romancatholicism.org/jansenism/augustine-approvals.htm
This was adopted by Zosimus as a rule of faith---and Innocent did before him. That means it is Catholic dogma. It is infallible, according to the rules of your church, and was reiterated at Lyon, Florence, and Trent. Vatican I and II didn't touch it. THAT is why baptism is still de fide. Limbo was always considered a heresy, (no ullus alicubi locus) from the time of Pelagius.
Now, I get that Ratzinger has tried to fuddle with this--since it's pretty horrific. But he's going to have to do more than issue a letter saying there's always "hope." In order to change the rule of your faith, he's going to have to admit that one of the fathers of your church--the single greatest theologian your church ever produced--was wrong.
On edit--please note that I've cited actual sources. I would expect that further debate from you would include reference to those sources.
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Gingrich on ABC: 'GET OVER IT' Mourdock’s Rape Comments Are What ‘Virtually Every Catholic’ Believes [View all]
trailmonkee
Oct 2012
OP
Scratch the surface of Martin Luther's theology and you'll also find a strong
coalition_unwilling
Oct 2012
#23
It is a Catholic belief. You believe everyone is born with Original Sin, right?
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#13
Is Original Sin predestined on everyone? Then guess what? Predestination is a tenet of Roman
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#26
"Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin." Your church doesn't agree with you.
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#35
The Church does not teach that children born without Baptism go to hell. That is absolutely wrong.
pnwmom
Oct 2012
#36
Yes, it does. Since the Council of Carthage XVI in 418. St. Augustine wrote the Canon.
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#37
I never said that baptism isn't important for Christians. But that isn't because babies
pnwmom
Oct 2012
#53
Baptism remains de fide to Catholics. And an magazine article doesn't override
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#55
A magazine article doesn't override revolting infallible dogma on Baptism. Maybe Benedict will
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#58
Jesus never used the word "Pope" in any language. And designating Peter as the "rock" of his Church
pnwmom
Oct 2012
#72
Post 38--you quote "Pastor Aeternus" extensively. It even says "Pastor Aeternus."
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#78
Um no---Pastor Aeternus grants the pope the same power as the councils, expanding the Magisterium.
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#81
Using the 'no true Scotsman' on Augustine? The guy who defined "Original Sin" for Christianity?
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#43
What? You read the action of that verb incorrectly, m'dear. You might wanna read the whole
msanthrope
Oct 2012
#50
Actually, depending on the survey, less than a quarter agree with the church's position and about
Brickbat
Oct 2012
#5
And it is not even the hierarchy's position that God meant the pregnancy to happen
pnwmom
Oct 2012
#9
The great Newt, always honest except when he speaks, believe him, his first two wives would say no.
Thinkingabout
Oct 2012
#18
I'm Catholic, I don't believe rape is God's will, or "just another method
TwilightGardener
Oct 2012
#30
Which is exactly why I want these "pro life" Neanderthals nowhere near our government.
Initech
Oct 2012
#31
That very well may be so, it may be what Catholics believe or want to believe.
liberalhistorian
Oct 2012
#44