Gingrich on ABC: 'GET OVER IT' Mourdock’s Rape Comments Are What ‘Virtually Every Catholic’ Believes

[msanthrope]

43. Using the 'no true Scotsman' on Augustine? The guy who defined "Original Sin" for Christianity?

Last edited Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:19 PM - Edit history (1)

The concept of Original Sin as defined by Augustine, which includes Canon 3a, cited above, is considered infallible. The infallibility of that canon (XVI Council of Carthage in 418,) was reaffirmed at the Council of Lyons II in 1274, the Council of Florence in 1438-1445 and at the Council of Trent in 1545-1555. You are required to accept the teachings on Original Sin obsequium religiosum.


You have conflated 'infallibility' with 'ex cathedra.' They are NOT the same thing. Infallible dogma can come from the pope "ex cathedra," but that is NOT the only source. There are 21 ecumenical councils you seem to want to forget.

Who can issue infallible dogma and what is infallible dogma is clarified for you in JPII's Ad tuendam fidem (and Lumen Gentium 25). You have THREE sources of infallibility within the Magisterium:

The Extrodinary Papal Magisterium (this would be 'ex cathedra' example)
The Extrodinary Episcopal Magisterium. (Councils and the like.)
The Ordinary Episcopal Magisterium speaking universally.


What is infallible dogma is a very long list, per Ratzinger*** himself:

To the truths of the first paragraph belong the articles of faith of the Creed, the various Christological dogmas21 and Marian dogmas;22 the doctrine of the institution of the sacraments by Christ and their efficacy with regard to grace;23 the doctrine of the real and substantial presence of Christ in the Eucharist24 and the sacrificial nature of the eucharistic celebration;25 the foundation of the Church by the will of Christ;26 the doctrine on the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff;27 the doctrine on the existence of original sin;28 the doctrine on the immortality of the spiritual soul and on the immediate recompense after death;29 the absence of error in the inspired sacred texts;30 the doctrine on the grave immorality of direct and voluntary killing of an innocent human being.31
http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfadtu.htm

The term "ex cathedra" refers to The Magisterium when the pope is acting alone. That's only happened two times--1854 (Immaculate Conception), and 1950(Assumption). MOST articles of infallible dogma, such as those listed above, come from The Magisterium through the form of Bishop's Councils. There's been 21 of 'em--that's where you get most of your dogma, and that dogma is INFALLIBLE.


Now, pnwmom, calling me an "outsider" is true---I am an atheist. But Jesuit-taught theology and Latin don't leave you. So anytime you want to play apologetics with me, I'll be happy to quote you chapter and verse of your own church's dogma to you.


***Note that Ratzinger was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, and published commentary included in the JPII letter. I really think all Catholics would do well to read papal letters. It might surprise them.


On edit--are you really using Wikipedia to talk about Catholic dogma??? Pastor Aeternus doesn't dispute the infallibility of doctrine coming from ecumenical councils, so I'm not even sure why you are mentioning it. Why are you mentioning it????

On edit again---I just realized something from your posts. Did you know that your pope isn't the only source of infallible dogma???? I think you are conflating your pope and the Magisterium. They are not the same thing. I also think you were not taught that your Ecumenical councils are the main source of your infallible dogma.