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LuckyCharms

(21,607 posts)
42. Yes, that's the point I was attempting to convey about shorting...
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 12:18 PM
Apr 2022

Last edited Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:32 PM - Edit history (3)

It's legal, people do it, hedge funds do it, but once you start trying to influence the price because you shorted the stock...that's not legal. For the same reasons that CEOs are required to have a quiet period for a certain time period before earnings announcements. For the same reason that in a non-family business, you should not have a father as a CEO, and his daughter as the CFO.

Once you start influencing a stock price to further your own interests, you inhibit organic price discovery, affect the proper valuation of a company, and hurt other investors of that company. You start messing with people's 401k's, messing with people's company pension plans that have stock investments.

You probably will not agree, but I've always been of the mind that shorting should not exist. Don't like the company, think they suck and that the price will go down? Then instead of having the ability to short their stock, why not just go long on their direct competitor's stock (buy their competitor's stock), and buy their competitor's product? That will make the company's stock that you don't like go down organically, with actual and proper price discovery. And then instead of profiting from shorting, you profit by going long since you apply buying pressure to the stock of the company you like and aid their bottom line by purchasing their products.

I don't buy the theory that shorts aid the market by weeding out bad companies. Bad companies weed themselves out naturally because they do bad business. I'll even go a few steps further. There is a notion that shorts provide liquidity to the market, so they are beneficial. I'm sure you have watched plenty of Level two data and time and sales tickers. That's not "liquidity". That's simply increasing trading volume by slapping huge lots of bid and ask prices that make the stock price do whatever it is they want it to do that particular day. How does that help the discovery of a company's market cap?

It's like anything else. Create something, anything, that has the potential to be abused, and humans will take full advantage of that opportunity. I'm not talking about retail investors who have a margin account. I'm talking about how these hedge funds have resources to slam down a stock for years. If only buying long existed, you either go long, or you don't. Simple. Bring shorting in? Get a huge hedge fund slamming the shit out of a stock every Friday so it will hit the weekly options expiration maximum pain strike price. Nothing organic about that.

Off my soap box: your list is excellent.

How about this one too?

Market makers routing 90% of buy orders through dark pools, and 100% of sell orders through lit markets? The SEC publicly admitted that this happens every day with retail investor orders, so it must be legal, but it shouldn't be.

Recommendations

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in a corporate oligarchy that owns both courts ananda Apr 2022 #1
If that is true, how relevant is the Democratic Party? kentuck Apr 2022 #2
So true Farmer-Rick Apr 2022 #10
But we must keep "crimes" in perspective. kentuck Apr 2022 #12
Bernie was convicted because he stole money from rich people, gab13by13 Apr 2022 #17
Bernie's crime was he stole money DENVERPOPS Apr 2022 #52
It doesn't look good for this country... BlueJac Apr 2022 #3
That's the most important question that needs to be answered, the future of the country depends on it Rhiannon12866 Apr 2022 #4
I am not optimistic HAB911 Apr 2022 #5
Unfortunately in America, there are several people who are either LuckyCharms Apr 2022 #6
Good post. I learned something new today. dixiechiken1 Apr 2022 #18
Thanks, dixiechiken1 and LuckyCharms Apr 2022 #22
Yup, luv me some Little Feat! 👍😊 dixiechiken1 Apr 2022 #24
Me too! Especially when Lowell George was alive. LuckyCharms Apr 2022 #27
Shorting the market is a legitimate investment strategy. jaxexpat Apr 2022 #31
Yes, that's the point I was attempting to convey about shorting... LuckyCharms Apr 2022 #42
The SEC is a family of foxes guarding the family henhouse. jaxexpat Apr 2022 #43
I agree with everything you said here. LuckyCharms Apr 2022 #44
Praying with you dwayneb Apr 2022 #59
Yes, it's an important question. llmart Apr 2022 #7
I agree with you llmart, slightlv Apr 2022 #29
Great and thought filled post. llmart Apr 2022 #45
It's too bad liberalgunwilltravel Apr 2022 #8
The only legal way to do it is with the US Tax Code... kentuck Apr 2022 #11
A wise man who is routinely bashed here, gab13by13 Apr 2022 #19
They are indeed The Wizard Apr 2022 #51
also Bernie. Grasswire2 Apr 2022 #65
He always says Bill Clinton and Democrats are neoliberal without mentioning that betsuni Apr 2022 #69
Don't assume they're not The Wizard Apr 2022 #49
Over forty years ago I asked myself that question. gibraltar72 Apr 2022 #9
I see depressingly little evidence to the contrary. Paladin Apr 2022 #13
+1 n/t area51 Apr 2022 #57
The answer is, the rich and powerful have always been above the law Mr. Ected Apr 2022 #14
I'm gonna start using that question when talking to Rs KS Toronado Apr 2022 #15
Those are exquisite questions. jaxexpat Apr 2022 #32
LOL, No they won't get huffy and stalk off KS Toronado Apr 2022 #35
I asked a Trump jihadist The Wizard Apr 2022 #50
Never understimate the power of propaganda (nt) dwayneb Apr 2022 #60
That was the premise of the Magna Carta Wednesdays Apr 2022 #16
Until proven otherwise Ferrets are Cool Apr 2022 #20
It is just not true and has not been true for a long time. The Jungle 1 Apr 2022 #21
In this country... kairos12 Apr 2022 #23
I have observed in my 73 years here there are two solids: Magoo48 Apr 2022 #25
All true dwayneb Apr 2022 #61
The rich and powerful have always been immune to our laws SoonerPride Apr 2022 #26
Not totally immune. When the rich and powerful piss off enough of their fellow... Silent3 Apr 2022 #28
The "law and order" party is above the law IronLionZion Apr 2022 #30
Is the question about theory or practice? SYFROYH Apr 2022 #33
As some have noted, it has always been theoretical.. kentuck Apr 2022 #34
That question has been answered in large part, over the years. Caliman73 Apr 2022 #36
True... The rich and powerful have always been above the law... Ohio Joe Apr 2022 #37
Ohio Joe...Great post! kentuck Apr 2022 #38
Thanks for the post. NT SmallFry Apr 2022 #41
Thank you for all that info. True Blue American Apr 2022 #68
Clearly LOTS inthewind21 Apr 2022 #39
I would put forward the thought that we have been arguing this question non-stop for generations. SmallFry Apr 2022 #40
Interesting comment. kentuck Apr 2022 #46
The experiment will continue. SmallFry Apr 2022 #47
I wish I were certain... kentuck Apr 2022 #48
That is hopeful thinking dwayneb Apr 2022 #62
There is no guarantee. kentuck Apr 2022 #67
The Bush/Cheney regime answered that question for me. CaptainTruth Apr 2022 #53
+1 important question grantcart Apr 2022 #54
Lots of people are above the law. qwlauren35 Apr 2022 #55
This message was self-deleted by its author cayugafalls Apr 2022 #56
I have two words that describe our mess moniss Apr 2022 #58
Clearly many people are above the law. onecaliberal Apr 2022 #63
What an excellent thread! Thanks to all. yonder Apr 2022 #64
what part has the strategy "Look forward, not back" played in this mess? Grasswire2 Apr 2022 #66
Laws are for people with no money! Emile Apr 2022 #70
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