General Discussion

Celerity

(54,325 posts)

198. I was referring to between the 2012 and 2016 elections, not the calendar years, meaning that both

Wed May 4, 2022, 08:14 PM

May 2022

the 2012 and the 2016 elections had the same level of restrictive laws.

If that was confusing I truly apologise for not being more clear, sorry.

Also, if there actually were new restrictions added after the 2012 election and before the 2016 election, then I will completely self-delete the post, as I was working off that article, and if the article was wrong, I cannot keep it up, as it is giving incorrect information in regards to that very thing if there actually were new laws added.

I absolutely can see that there was (and continues to be) a whole lot of RW voter suppression shitbaggery going on in PA (and in so many other states).

That is why, of all the Manchin/Sinema obstructionism and destruction of major parts of the Biden agenda, the things that most enrage me are their blocking of all the major voter right/protection bills.

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Reminder: HRC lost the Electoral College by less than 100K votes spread over 3 states. [View all] pnwmom May 2022 OP

Seriously agree. Cut through Comey, Russia, Stein, etc., and those in party Hoyt May 2022 #1

Hillary would not have placed any judges mikeysnot May 2022 #2

This is the correct answer. NT mahatmakanejeeves May 2022 #4

No it is not the correct answer...just an excuse really. And there is no excuse IMHO. Demsrule86 May 2022 #120

Agree. Every person who helped elect tRump needs to admit Hortensis May 2022 #183

Excuses, excuses! demosincebirth May 2022 #7

He wouldn't have gotten away with that for her whole term. brush May 2022 #8

Check your timeline. mikeysnot May 2022 #10

Hillary would've been president from 2016-2020 if not for reasons already discussed. brush May 2022 #14

Even if he had gotten away with it, the Court would have no conservative majority. Beautiful Disaster May 2022 #11

If Hillary won in 2016, she likely loses in 2020 Polybius May 2022 #117

Incumbents rarely lose. Let's see, in 32 Herbert Hoover lost, in 1976 Jimmy Carter lost, Demsrule86 May 2022 #122

2016 was a Republican year (after 8 years of a Democrat) Polybius May 2022 #205

Even if he doesn't, there's not enough conservative justices to overturn Roe. Beautiful Disaster May 2022 #9

Nope mikeysnot May 2022 #12

Nope. Beautiful Disaster May 2022 #15

Let's be honest, if Clinton had become POTUS, the Repuke House would have impeached her within days DickKessler May 2022 #36

So what you are implying is that it was OK to not vote for Democratic nominee because Demsrule86 May 2022 #124

Or maybe inthewind21 May 2022 #130

Am I understanding this correctly? ShazzieB May 2022 #179

This whole discussion is a "what-if"-- about what would have happened with the SC DemocraticPatriot May 2022 #188

There's not a lot of people in this world I wish would drop dead. Initech May 2022 #20

This is the correct answer (confirmed by John McCain) budkin May 2022 #96

Ok...if you say so...whatever gets you through...what could be the end of our Republic Demsrule86 May 2022 #125

We might have taken the Senate...at the midterm or even during the election...so that is not Demsrule86 May 2022 #119

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #3

That's one of the most asinine statements Cha May 2022 #98

Amen...the excuses are truly pitiful. Demsrule86 May 2022 #128

I'll say inthewind21 May 2022 #132

That is true. What distubs me about this is that...you get the feeling that some have learned Demsrule86 May 2022 #178

Ugh, I agree with you, but name calling is no bueno. ShazzieB May 2022 #181

You are so fucking right! Progressives don't like to talk about those losses demosincebirth May 2022 #5

Women's rights are important Sympthsical May 2022 #6

You are assuming those tens of millions would have voted for a progressive. I'm not. pnwmom May 2022 #16

No candidate is owed anyone's vote. That's just reality. DickKessler May 2022 #31

And the reality is that those progressives who voted 3rd party decided to let the perfect pnwmom May 2022 #34

I don't actually disagree with you on that. DickKessler May 2022 #37

So you are saying that we don't have to vote for the Democratic nominee for President. Demsrule86 May 2022 #131

What does "have to" mean? This is a democracy, yes? DickKessler May 2022 #212

It's not about the candidate being owed a vote. It's about the country. yardwork May 2022 #182

bravo! sheshe2 May 2022 #189

You're right. It is about the country. Do you agree then, that RBG should have retired before 2015? DickKessler May 2022 #211

Except if we do not acknowledge the stupid of THEN, we will do the stupid again. LizBeth May 2022 #175

There's plenty of stupid to go around Sympthsical May 2022 #190

300K voters were turned away at the polls in Wisconsin alone for lacking proper ID Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #13

And yet the 3rd party progressives could have turned the election around DESPITE pnwmom May 2022 #17

I don't understand why liberals would rather blame the left than Republicans Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #25

The enemy isn't pretending to be anything but the enemy pnwmom May 2022 #27

If you want to win over progressive voters, give them a progressive candidate Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #28

Anyone who thinks HRC wasn't progressive is nuts. She wasn't center-right by any definition. pnwmom May 2022 #33

She said M4A would "never, ever happen" leftstreet May 2022 #35

I only blame "progressives" who failed to vote for the only Democrat running in November, pnwmom May 2022 #42

Yup. And most of them did it in supposed righteous zeal -- Hortensis May 2022 #110

Exactly LongtimeAZDem May 2022 #191

She very much was centre-right by the definition of the majority of the world Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #39

The WORLD wasn't voting in the US election, so the US electorate is the only one that mattered. n/t pnwmom May 2022 #44

Actual leftists would ALSO view her as centre-right. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #45

And those "actual leftists" who viewed her as center-right and therefore unworthy pnwmom May 2022 #46

Then maybe you should've nominated a candidate they could vote for Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #47

A candidate they could vote for would be one that millions of Democrats would be repulsed by. pnwmom May 2022 #48

Then stop complaining that you didn't get their votes, since you clearly don't want them? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #49

Honestly, the "issues" were trumped up by one losing campaign. Nixie May 2022 #82

Wealth inequality certainly is an issue Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #90

Bill Clinton did all that and balanced the budget. Nixie May 2022 #92

+1 betsuni May 2022 #106

They "could" have voted for the Democratic nominee mcar May 2022 #102

Given the choice between two candidates I find repugnant I might make the same choice. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #123

Anyone who professes to be left-leaning who finds a highly accomplished mcar May 2022 #126

American "liberals" are not left wing, at all? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #127

No inthewind21 May 2022 #139

Again, the sense of entitlement is staggering Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #141

I, for one, do indeed despise them more than the republicans. They knew what was at stake, LongtimeAZDem May 2022 #192

Mitch inthewind21 May 2022 #134

That's how electoral politics works? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #135

I view her as a centrist and I voted for her. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #138

Indeed inthewind21 May 2022 #140

We got Trump because some people saw her as a centrist and voted for her anyway? Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #142

The narratives that took hold during the 2016 general election campaign are stunning lapucelle May 2022 #203

And we need to win Wisconsin this year.....n/m BradAllison May 2022 #26

+1, democrats to this day don't understand how effective anti voter laws are uponit7771 May 2022 #112

Stein voters and voters stayed home were the margin of defeat LetMyPeopleVote May 2022 #18

Faulty logic - If Stein and Nader hadn't run, their supporters would've stayed home. TheRickles May 2022 #21

You are WRONG LetMyPeopleVote May 2022 #23

Congrats for totally demolishing my point with irrefutable logic. TheRickles May 2022 #24

Thank you for the laughs. You are always WRONG LetMyPeopleVote May 2022 #85

Gary Johnson's voters would have largely gone to Hillary. But that isn't the main issue. StevieM May 2022 #83

There were definitely broader slams on Democrats in general Nixie May 2022 #107

Lofty goals that can't be achieved as claimed are intensely imperfect, though. Hortensis May 2022 #19

If "ifs and buts were candies and nuts.... SergeStorms May 2022 #22

I believe Sheldon Cooper said it to Neil DeGrasse Tyson on the Big Bang Theory. (eom) StevieM May 2022 #86

I first heard it as a kid..... SergeStorms May 2022 #94

those states were packed with conservatives. Red state moderates VOTED FOR TRUMP, not progressives bigtree May 2022 #29

We could blame those voters. Or we could blame those who didn't vote for someone more "electable" DickKessler May 2022 #30

There was no one more electable than the person who won the primaries. pnwmom May 2022 #40

What about the current President? DickKessler May 2022 #41

Joe Biden didn't run. His heart wasn't in it, so soon after losing his son. nt pnwmom May 2022 #43

More people voted for Stein in the 3 states mcar May 2022 #32

Susan Sarandon edhopper May 2022 #38

She was hoping to bring our evil "establishment" down, so she may Hortensis May 2022 #109

She was under the delusion edhopper May 2022 #116

:) The usual. Extremist activists always need to think "the people" agree Hortensis May 2022 #144

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #50

Just the progressives who falsely proclaimed that HRC wasn't progressive pnwmom May 2022 #51

How exactly was she progressive? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #52

How is giving a speech at Goldman Sachs and getting paid the usual amount betsuni May 2022 #54

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #55

Why? The last GS speech was by the Co-CEO of KKR, founder of the Asian American Foundation. betsuni May 2022 #57

Is he running for President? No? Then I don't care what he does. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #62

But he got paid for a speech, so ... betsuni May 2022 #63

He's an investment banker; that should be disqualifying (n/t) Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #65

Oh, like millionaires used to be disqualifying until they weren't. betsuni May 2022 #66

No, more like... Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #67

Should golden parachutes be disqualifying, then? Nixie May 2022 #73

Being paid a lot of money to give speeches by someone who hopes you'll act in their interest.... Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #75

So it's okay to take golden parachutes from an employer Nixie May 2022 #80

So inthewind21 May 2022 #148

I voted for Hillary in 2016. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #150

Being paid for doing a job is bad if Hillary. Becoming a millionaire by writing betsuni May 2022 #152

Being paid by people who hope to gain influence is definitely bad Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #155

What corruption? What influence? Name anything. Appearance? Name one real thing. betsuni May 2022 #161

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #162

Heh, the inevitable personal insult. What's wrong with Hillary? betsuni May 2022 #163

Not voting for Hillary isn't the same as preferring Trump. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #164

But why did Hillary "suck"? betsuni May 2022 #168

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #170

"sucking the teat"? Now you're just teasing me. betsuni May 2022 #174

Thank you. This insistence on clinging to personal insults has Nixie May 2022 #204

Some view lying about others so maliciously to be corrupt. Nixie May 2022 #72

Most people over the course of decades changed. I already explained to you that she did NOT pnwmom May 2022 #56

She voted for the AUMF; she could've voted no. She didn't vote no. Don't try to justify it. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #58

Boston Globe, 2016: HRC has run the most progressive presidential campaign in history of the US. pnwmom May 2022 #61

Thank you. betsuni May 2022 #60

did progressives make red state moderates vote for Trump? bigtree May 2022 #53

I don't know any Democratic progressives who hated Hillary and gave Trump the benefit of the doubt, pnwmom May 2022 #59

progressives hated on Hillary for speeches for money bigtree May 2022 #64

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #68

He was busy writing his book. betsuni May 2022 #70

Like that was more important than beating Trump. If he had won the nomination, pnwmom May 2022 #154

again, red state moderates actually voted for Trump bigtree May 2022 #71

And yet there were enough Jill Stein voters to have swung the election. Bernie might pnwmom May 2022 #157

Well, he actually came to Wisconsin unlike the actual candidate. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #136

Great inthewind21 May 2022 #151

Since you apparently missed my point. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #160

Hillary is too perfect to ever get any blame. It's all the fault of evil leftists and Bernie Bros. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #166

You can't say that the Clinton campaign was poorly ran around here. Ace Rothstein May 2022 #171

So why didn't everyone vote for Hillary after Bernie went to Wisconsin? betsuni May 2022 #167

So candidates shouldn't spend money doing campaign visits? Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #180

The ones that actively attacked her were not Progressives. People like Jill Stein JI7 May 2022 #69

And opportunists like Bernie Sanders, who wasn't even a Democrat. Beacool May 2022 #77

yet he endorsed her for president bigtree May 2022 #79

What were all those folks treated to from a non-Democrat. The messaging that Democrats Nixie May 2022 #209

We should stop pretending these people care about liberal causes JI7 May 2022 #91

+1 betsuni May 2022 #105

+1 LizBeth May 2022 #176

Trump became president because 77,000 people voted for him over Hillary. Beacool May 2022 #74

Biden won by even less. Flip just 21,461 votes from blue to red, spread Celerity May 2022 #76

you blamed black people for her loss bigtree May 2022 #78

I only stated statistical facts, the 2016 race was so close that multiple things could have tipped Celerity May 2022 #81

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #87

again with false charges and also non sequiturs, with personal attacks added in Celerity May 2022 #97

More background on 2016 Celerity May 2022 #84

I've had enough of this bigtree May 2022 #88

Quit blaming black people. It's shameful and very tiresome Nixie May 2022 #89

That's a false charge, there are many reasons why Clinton lost, and I, unlike many, do not narrow Celerity May 2022 #93

Another deflection. Everyone knows about the Obama coalition, Nixie May 2022 #95

No. I am deflecting nothing, you are the one trying to muddy the waters. Celerity May 2022 #99

The deflection is the deliberate deception about how or Nixie May 2022 #100

No. Celerity May 2022 #101

"It's like 3 people shooting someone all at once, at the same time, fatal with all 3 combined..." Nixie May 2022 #103

utterly false framing and projection to try and insinuate something sinister into a simple analogy Celerity May 2022 #111

It was your own projection, not mine. You wrote it. Nixie May 2022 #118

I projected nothing, you are the one projecting with your repeated references and false Celerity May 2022 #129

They were your words, your analogy, your projection. Nixie May 2022 #137

No, you are falsely, outrageously trying to make a false connection to things that have nothing Celerity May 2022 #145

No. Your words are your words. It's just that simple. Nixie May 2022 #146

Stop harassing and slandering me. It is blatant cyber bullying. Celerity May 2022 #147

Your words, your analogy. Nixie May 2022 #149

Nothing superfluous, absolutely germane. You are falsely erecting a Potemkin village of a narrative Celerity May 2022 #169

I don't have to apologize for what you wrote. It's a completely irrational technique Nixie May 2022 #186

No, you can spin it all you want, but you are the one playing personal attack and invent a false Celerity May 2022 #193

+1 Celerity you are absolutely correct SunImp May 2022 #194

Can I summarize what I see from "childish" posters, as well? Nixie May 2022 #210

This is really over the top. It's very irrational. Nixie May 2022 #202

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #156

you apparently do not understand what spam is, nor can you compare slanderous personal attacks Celerity May 2022 #158

What do you call your attempts to get me to engage on a personal level with you? Nixie May 2022 #206

Will you stop inthewind21 May 2022 #153

I am not cutting and pasting, most of the text is my own original typing, if you do not want to Celerity May 2022 #159

You should take your own advice. If you don't want to read how someone responds to your own words, Nixie May 2022 #207

Yes, and it's obvious her links don't match how she summarizes them. She indicated she understands Nixie May 2022 #208

Thanks for this info. Clinton's loss was more complex than many want to see. For some it's all jalan48 May 2022 #108

even the scapegoat does not hold up, even if you use a very much extreme overestimate Celerity May 2022 #114

Revisionism is correct. Failure can then be blamed on someone else, the scapegoat. jalan48 May 2022 #115

I was fearful at the time, that AA turnout would drop significantly without Barack Obama DemocraticPatriot May 2022 #187

"decline in black turnout to voter suppression tactics " is more of a factor for black voter drop .. uponit7771 May 2022 #113

this was definitely the case in WI Celerity May 2022 #121

"though in PA and MI there were no new restrictive laws passed between 2012 and 2016. " BumRushDaShow May 2022 #195

I did not state that there were no restrictive laws in place. I only said that post 2012 election, Celerity May 2022 #196

But this is what you wrote BumRushDaShow May 2022 #197

I was referring to between the 2012 and 2016 elections, not the calendar years, meaning that both Celerity May 2022 #198

Understood BumRushDaShow May 2022 #199

As bad as the Rethugs are in the US House and US Senate (and they are shit bad) there are many Celerity May 2022 #200

I just posted in another thread that mentions some issues early on (2013) in Michigan BumRushDaShow May 2022 #201

Gary Johnson got three times as many votes as Stein 867-5309. May 2022 #104

I just love the "blame the left" posts. So productive and helpful. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #133

Any time there is a traumatic even they refight the 2016 primary all over again Doc Sportello May 2022 #165

Or we can just put our hands over our ears, do stupid all over again. Sarandon today is working LizBeth May 2022 #177

YES, BUT HER EMAILS!!! RedSpartan May 2022 #143

Another institution that has outlived its usefulness BlueIdaho May 2022 #172

I will not forgive, I will not forget. How many times were we told women issues were NOT LizBeth May 2022 #173

No one gets all the votes. 4.5 million for Johnson/Weld SYFROYH May 2022 #184

Four years later Biden flipped the those states known as the Blue Wall back. Autumn May 2022 #185