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Kid Berwyn

(14,907 posts)
68. Here's why The Pentagon considers UFOs "Serious Business"
Thu May 19, 2022, 08:21 AM
May 2022

Mantell, Moncla, Wilson and Valentich.

The first three were pilots, officers in the United States armed forces. The fourth name was a young Australian air cadet.

Each lost their life in association with UFOs. There likely are others. Here's a bit on them:

Thomas Mantell





Mantell Case (1948)

EXCERPT...

Mantell was an experienced pilot; his flight history consisted of 2,167 hours in the air, and he had been honored for his part in the Battle of Normandy during World War II.

On 7 January 1948, Godman Field at Fort Knox, Kentucky received a report from the Kentucky Highway Patrol of an unusual aerial object near Maysville, Kentucky. Reports of a westbound circular object, 250 feet (76 m) to 300 feet (91 m) in diameter, were received from Owensboro, Kentucky, and Irvington, Kentucky.

At about 1:45 p.m., Sgt Quinton Blackwell saw an object from his position in the control tower at Fort Knox. Two other witnesses in the tower also reported a white object in the distance. Base commander Colonel Guy Hix reported an object he described as "very white," and "about one fourth the size of the full moon ... Through binoculars it appeared to have a red border at the bottom ... It remained stationary, seemingly, for one and a half hours." Observers at Clinton County Army Air Field in Ohio described the object "as having the appearance of a flaming red cone trailing a gaseous green mist" and observed the object for around 35 minutes. Another observer at Lockbourne Army Air Field in Ohio noted, "Just before leaving it came to very near the ground, staying down for about ten seconds, then climbed at a very fast rate back to its original altitude, 10,000 feet, leveling off and disappearing into the overcast heading 120 degrees. Its speed was greater than 500 mph in level flight."

Four P-51 Mustangs of C Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron Kentucky Air National Guard already in the air—one piloted by Mantell—were told to approach the object. Blackwell was in radio communication with the pilots throughout the event.

One pilot's Mustang was low on fuel, and he quickly abandoned his efforts. Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (the first head of Project Blue Book) notes that there was some disagreement amongst the air traffic controllers as to Mantell's words as he communicated with the tower: some sources reported that Mantell had described an object "which) looks metallic and of tremendous size," but, according to Ruppelt in The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, others disputed whether or not Mantell actually said this.

The other two pilots accompanied Mantell in steep pursuit of the object. They later reported they saw an object, but described it as so small and indistinct they could not identify it. Mantell ignored suggestions that the pilots should level their altitude and try to more clearly see the object.

Only one of Mantell's companions, Lt. Albert Clemmons, had an oxygen mask, and his oxygen was in low supply. Clemmons and a Lt. Hammond called off their pursuit at 22,500 feet (6,900 m). Mantell continued to climb, however. According to the Air Force, once Mantell passed 25,000 feet (7,600 m) he supposedly blacked out from the lack of oxygen (hypoxia), and his plane began spiraling back towards the ground. A witness later reported Mantell's Mustang in a circling descent. His plane crashed at a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky, on the Tennessee-Kentucky state line.

Firemen later pulled Mantell's body from the Mustang's wreckage. His wristwatch had stopped at 3:18 p.m., the time of his crash. Meanwhile, by 3:50 p.m. the UFO was no longer visible to observers at Godman Field. The Mantell Incident was reported by newspapers around the nation, and received significant news media attention. A number of sensational rumors were also circulated about Mantell's crash. Among the rumors were claims that Mantell's fighter had been shot down by the UFO he was chasing, and that the Air Force covered up evidence proving this. Another rumor stated that Mantell's body was found riddled with strange holes. However, no evidence has ever surfaced to substantiate any of these claims. In 1956, Ruppelt wrote that the Mantell Crash was one of three "classic" UFO cases in 1948 that would help to define the UFO phenomenon in the public mind, and would help to convince Air Force intelligence specialists that UFOs were a "real", physical phenomenon (Ruppelt 30). The other two sightings were the Gorman Dogfight and the Chiles-Whitted UFO Encounter.

CONTINUED...

http://www.mufon.com/mantell-case---1948.html



Felix Moncla and Robert Wilson



USAF Radar operator stated he watched the aircraft approach the UFO; then saw the two blips merge into one return that quickly moved off the screen.



Marksville Weekly News

Avoyelles Parish has connections to a UFO mystery that goes back 49 years. Gordon Heath from Surrey, British Columbia was in Marksville recently to investigate the background of Lt. Felix E. Moncla who disappeared along with another crew member, Second Lt. Robert L. Wilson, over Lake Superior on Monday, November 23, 1953.

According to Heath, who is a UFO hobbyist, Moncla was on temporary assignment at Kinross Air Force Base in ...(sic. Michigan)... when he was sent to identify and unidentified craft over the Soo Locks, which is restricted airspace. Moncla, in an F-89C, pursued the craft for about 30 minutes flying at 30,000 feet over the middle of Lake Superior. He was flying about 500 mph when he was instructed by ground radar to descend to 7,000 feet.

When the unidentified craft was finally on radar it was noted that the two radar images, the UFO and the Air Force jet, were very close and at some point they intersected but only one remained. Heath says that the unidentified craft flew north and disappeared from radar.

Lt. Moncla's jet mysteriously disappeared without a trace.

http://www.nuforc.org/mancla.html


No remains of the crew or wreckage of the F-89C have been found.



Frederick Valentich

His late father holds the missing flyer's picture:





Delta Sierra Juliet? Do you read?

Boats and aircraft have found no trace of the 20-year old Australian pilot who disappeared with his plane on Saturday night after radioing that he was being chased by a UFO. Frederick Valentich was on a 125 mile training flight in his single engine Cessna 182 along the coast of Bass Strait when he told air traffic controllers in Melbourne that he was being buzzed by a UFO with 4 bright lights about 1000 feet above him.

Controllers said his last message was taped and was: "It's approaching from due east towards me. It seems to be playing some sort of game... flying at a speed I can't estimate. It's not an aircraft. It's...It is flying past. It is a long shape. I cannot identify more than that. It's coming for me right now." A minute later: "It seems to be stationary. I'm also orbiting and the thing is orbiting on top of me also. It has a green light and a sort of metallic light on the outside." Valentich then radioed that his engine was running roughly. His last words were: "It is not an aircraft."

The Australian Air Force said it had received 11 reports from people along the coast who said they saw UFOs on Saturday night, but the Transport Department was skeptical. Ken Williams, a spokesman for the department, said, "It's funny all these people ringing up with UFO reports well after Valentich's disappearance. It seems people often decide after the event, they too had seen strange lights. But although we can't take them too seriously, we can never discourgae such reports when investigating a plane's disappearance."

SNIP...

ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTION OF MELBOURNE FLIGHT SERVICE

The transcript portion of the communication between Valentich and Melbourne Flight Service as released by the Australian Department of Transport follows: (FS - Flight Service, DSJ - Frederick Valentich aircraft designation).

1906:14 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet. Is there any known traffic below five thousand?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known traffic.

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I am, seems to be a large aircraft below five thousand.

1906:44 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, What type of aircraft is it?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I cannot affirm, it is four bright, it seems to me like landing lights.

1907 FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1907:31 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet, the aircraft has just passed over me at least a thousand feet above.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, and it is a large aircraft, confirmed?

DSJ Er-unknown, due to the speed it's travelling, is there any air force aircraft in the vicinity?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known aircraft in the vicinity.

1908:18 DSJ Melbourne, it's approaching now from due east towards me.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1908:41 DSJ (open microphone for two seconds.)

1908:48 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, it seems to me that he's playing some sort of game, he's flying over me two, three times at speeds I could not identify.

1909 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what is your actual level?

DSJ My level is four and a half thousand, four five zero zero.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, and you confirm you cannot identify the aircraft?

DSJ Affirmative.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, stand by.

1909:27 DSJ Melbourne, Delta Sierra Juliet, it's not an aircraft it is (open microphone for two seconds).

1909:42 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, can you describe the -er- aircraft?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, as it's flying past it's a long shape (open microphone for three seconds) cannot identify more than it has such speed (open microphone for three seconds). It's before me right now Melbourne.

1910 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger and how large would the - er - object be?

1910:19 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, Melbourne, it seems like it's stationary. What I'm doing right now is orbiting and the thing is just orbiting on top of me also. It's got a green light and sort of metallic like, it's all shiny on the outside.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1910:46 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet (open microphone for three seconds) It's just vanished.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911 DSJ Melbourne, would you know what kind of aircraft I've got? Is it a military aircraft?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, Confirm the - er ~ aircraft just vanished.

DSJ Say again.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, is the aircraft still with you?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet; it's (open microphone for two seconds) now approaching from the south-west.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911:50 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, the engine is rough-idling. I've got it set at twenty three twenty-four and the thing is coughing.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what are your intentions?

DSJ My intentions are - ah - to go to King Island - ah - Melbourne. That strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again (open microphone for two seconds). It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1912:28 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. Melbourne (open microphone for seventeen seconds).

SOURCE: http://www.ufocasebook.com/australianpilot.html



So that’s part of the reason why the Pentagon considers UFOs “serious business.”

As for people who ridicule those who report or discuss UFOs, that’s undemocratic.
US aircraft were in close calls with UFOs BigmanPigman May 2022 #1
Encounters perhaps detailed in the private session. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #2
The key to this whole question is a movie from 1950s, "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Stuart G May 2022 #35
Is that blurry blob thing Disaffected May 2022 #3
No, that UFO photograph is from 1950. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #4
Why then did you include it Disaffected May 2022 #6
As I stated in the OP, UFOs are a worthy study. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #16
Nope, it's a total waste of time. Aliens are not visiting fucking earth. USALiberal May 2022 #86
Yes, they had lots of hubcaps in McMinnville back then PSPS May 2022 #10
Maybe so, but it's very hard to duplicate for two photos. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #18
"I understand the object may about 50-feet in diameter" Disaffected May 2022 #27
The link shows how Maccabee gave it the old college try. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #42
The old college try failed IMO. Disaffected May 2022 #45
Wrong. The report makes clear the photos were taken from 2 spots. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #47
Yeah, Disaffected May 2022 #51
No need to be condescending. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #53
Have you ever played frisbee golf? Eko May 2022 #29
How about the Rex Heflin UFO photos from 1965? Kid Berwyn May 2022 #43
I don't see any disturbance. Eko May 2022 #44
Can't make you see what you don't want to see. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #50
Are you talking about this? Eko May 2022 #60
Yes. There's more. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #66
Yes I already read that. Eko May 2022 #74
It's possible UFOs involve ETs, but I don't know. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #76
So if its not a vehicle from outer space Eko May 2022 #77
None of your conclusions edhopper May 2022 #34
Whatever. I quoted Bruce Maccabee. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #37
That analysis doesn't make sense to me. Disaffected May 2022 #46
Photogrammetry. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #81
I know what photogrammetry is. Disaffected May 2022 #83
Birds and weather phenomena tend to be unmanned OhZone May 2022 #5
And so are fakes and tall tales as well as Disaffected May 2022 #9
Yeah OhZone May 2022 #12
When asked if any UAP reports included multiple types of data, they went dark. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #19
Lots of UFOs, but few aliens. Why would they waste their time with us? Hoyt May 2022 #7
That's a great question. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #21
They probably saw how we treated Native Americans, and went elsewhere. Hoyt May 2022 #24
Absolutely would, as it demonstrates our empathy for others. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #25
Let's do a little thought exercise on that Amishman May 2022 #88
Aw Jeez... PSPS May 2022 #8
It's only been a half century since the UFO hearings. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music May 2022 #23
Im not sure you are saying what you think you are saying. Eko May 2022 #28
They have been here, & looked us over. Decided humans not "smart enough" to have contact with. Stuart G May 2022 #11
That would be sad. Or worse, we are too dirty. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #32
except they seem to be hanging out around the planet, just in the oceans anarch May 2022 #49
I never get an actual answer to this question, and I never will. Archae May 2022 #13
I have answered this before CrackityJones75 May 2022 #14
shoot I forgot my disclaimer CrackityJones75 May 2022 #15
Stellar objects are not the same as aerial objects. Archae May 2022 #17
That is indeed their conundrum. Disaffected May 2022 #26
It does show what the human imagination can come up with. Archae May 2022 #30
Ore to the point, public reports of UFOs and aliens tend to mirror the movies they've seen recently brooklynite May 2022 #64
Movies and other popular media. Archae May 2022 #71
Lol....How come the pictures in the 1950s look better? USALiberal May 2022 #20
Our phones are designed for portraits, close up pictures of us in everyday life Mr. Sparkle May 2022 #31
Oh, then what about Disaffected May 2022 #48
Unless there is an Alien invasion , the odds of a small number of professional photographers Mr. Sparkle May 2022 #57
If you are talking about flying saucers, Disaffected May 2022 #58
The Navy does. Today's hearing showed a crap picture. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #33
Yes, posted before, But the key to this whole question is a movie: "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Stuart G May 2022 #36
UFOs associated with power outages. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #52
Well, that's an interesting hypothesis - that films are convincing people they understand aliens muriel_volestrangler May 2022 #62
It's the greys melm00se May 2022 #38
I've posted on DU for more than 20 years. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #54
I don't know why it still surprises me how many people vehemently reject this topic anarch May 2022 #39
I think the government knows more than that, but the government is not going to tell it all. Stuart G May 2022 #55
I'm guessing people "reject this topic" because there's no evidence to support it... brooklynite May 2022 #56
you don't consider even the verified Navy videos to be compelling evidence? anarch May 2022 #61
Seem to be edhopper May 2022 #75
J Allen Hynek thought the Papua encounter remarkable. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #59
+100 Duppers May 2022 #65
My Take Willto May 2022 #40
As to the guy in Arkansas in 1965... Archae May 2022 #41
Understand why you feel that way. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #67
Hey, I had an affair with a Martian! LeftInTX May 2022 #63
Here's why The Pentagon considers UFOs "Serious Business" Kid Berwyn May 2022 #68
"You fools! It's getting away!" struggle4progress May 2022 #69
Great cartoon, that! And another... Kid Berwyn May 2022 #72
Two little men struggle4progress May 2022 #70
The Flying Saucer Kid Berwyn May 2022 #73
Global warming is forcing undiscovered flying creatures into the skies ecstatic May 2022 #78
"A frog hops. These are walking." Kid Berwyn May 2022 #79
That story was really cool ecstatic May 2022 #80
Hell what about UHO's? Cause I hear more shit than I can't identify. miyazaki May 2022 #82
Your report is called an observation. It contains information... Kid Berwyn May 2022 #84
What a fucking waste of time! Nt USALiberal May 2022 #85
If that were so, why bother posting? Kid Berwyn May 2022 #90
Thanks, Kid, and hang in there! Amazing how "This is real" from the military (2017) gets forgotten librechik May 2022 #87
A: The speed at which Corporate News drops UAP story. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #91
I thought this would be a thread mocking the UFO hearings so I didn't click on it. Too easy. hunter May 2022 #89
Those are very important observations. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #92
I used to have a book full of those photos LeftInTX May 2022 #93
His analysis may be correct. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #94
And the net result of These analyses is: they're unidentified... brooklynite May 2022 #95
Jacques Vallee would be disappointed if that was the explanation. Kid Berwyn May 2022 #96
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