General Discussion

Silent3

(15,909 posts)

7. I'm not a fan of churches getting tax-free status, but "establishment of religion"...

Reply to Rustynaerduwell (Original post)

Mon Jul 11, 2022, 03:17 PM

Jul 2022

...is about the government establishing or favoring a particular religion or sect. As long as Buddhists and Hindus and Christians and Satanists all enjoy the same tax breaks, their is no violation of the establishment clause.

I personally don't think it's right to favor religion over non-religion, but not too many judges or Constitutional scholars see it that way.

I think the original idea of this tax break (apart from the view many people seem to have "better to have some religion, no matter the variety, than no religion at all" ) was to prevent taxation as being used as a weapon against disfavored faiths.

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Explain to me why I'm wrong about tax exempt status for churches. [View all] Rustynaerduwell Jul 2022 OP

Lots of non-profits enjoy tax free status. nt Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #1

Including the NRA spanone Jul 2022 #2

Yes, maybe "Save the Children" should be granted tax free status, but Rustynaerduwell Jul 2022 #6

I don't know any churches that are giving wnylib Jul 2022 #45

+1000 wnylib Jul 2022 #37

I think you are absolutely correct Handler Jul 2022 #3

Because 'people believe' that the 2000 year old scribblings of some random Bronze-Age nomads Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #4

Would you tell that to Joe Biden? former9thward Jul 2022 #15

I didn't denigrate anybody, I just said 'people believe' Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #21

Which non profit religious organization wnylib Jul 2022 #40

Your taxes support those religions SouthernDem4ever Jul 2022 #54

How are tax dollars supporting churches? wnylib Jul 2022 #91

Ok well if you can figure out a way to stop the pilfering in some without affecting the others SouthernDem4ever Jul 2022 #109

I didn't say there were any, now did I? Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #55

But why bring up the idea at all? wnylib Jul 2022 #92

I was saying since Joe Biden is NOT doing this, I don't have a problem Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #115

Pretty much all religious organizations? Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #65

Voltaire, I would expect more discernment wnylib Jul 2022 #93

The Roman Catholic Church is shoving religion onto EVERYONE. Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #82

I Would ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #38

So you would tell him: former9thward Jul 2022 #52

Comprehension Problems? ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #67

So just because some prominent Democrats are religious Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #81

I'm with him. Ferrets are Cool Jul 2022 #30

You sound as fanatical and dogmatic about wnylib Jul 2022 #49

Talk about mind control SouthernDem4ever Jul 2022 #58

We can put this to rest easily: Orrex Jul 2022 #80

Such a stereotyped narrow view wnylib Jul 2022 #90

If any law is based in any religion, then that religion MUST prove its veracity Orrex Jul 2022 #100

Don't know if you were trying but you just made the perfect case why SouthernDem4ever Jul 2022 #110

I NEVER FUCKING EVER push my beliefs on others Ferrets are Cool Jul 2022 #89

How could an atheist force beliefs wnylib Jul 2022 #97

Not a fair comparison July Jul 2022 #96

Not a fair comparison July Jul 2022 #98

Bet you didn't know this too Beachnutt Jul 2022 #5

Would love to see some of those reports on the mega churches and the televangelists...nt Wounded Bear Jul 2022 #8

Same here Rebl2 Jul 2022 #39

However, any church that earns money which wnylib Jul 2022 #63

"Related to church operation" is a miraculously large umbrella Orrex Jul 2022 #83

That is basically how it works now Zeitghost Jul 2022 #85

That's funny, because: Orrex Jul 2022 #102

That is unconstitutional Zeitghost Jul 2022 #105

Punish them? No, that's your fantasy. Orrex Jul 2022 #106

It's pretty clear Zeitghost Jul 2022 #107

Whatever Orrex Jul 2022 #108

So, in other words, no charitable deductions wnylib Jul 2022 #94

Or, as you would apparently prefer it: Orrex Jul 2022 #101

I'm not a fan of churches getting tax-free status, but "establishment of religion"... Silent3 Jul 2022 #7

No- the 1st am says ... "shall make no law RESPECTING an establishment of religion"- Rustynaerduwell Jul 2022 #12

That use of "respecting" is in the sense "in regards to", "pertaining to"... Silent3 Jul 2022 #14

Exactly- No "law pertaining to" something- Rustynaerduwell Jul 2022 #17

But then you have to attach "establish" Silent3 Jul 2022 #29

Exactly. I think it could just as easily have said a religious establishment, like a business establ Walleye Jul 2022 #20

And "Establishment"s in the vernacular of the 1770's didn't mean that either dickthegrouch Jul 2022 #27

The problem is when you give a benefit to a religion that non-religions don't get is you... PoliticAverse Jul 2022 #19

Plenty of non-religious organizations SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #71

Tax the churches! nt Wounded Bear Jul 2022 #9

Okay. But how? Zeitghost Jul 2022 #34

Property Taxes? ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #41

As I said in another post SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #43

Who Accounts For The Charity Donations? ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #50

We get an annual financial statement SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #59

Sorry ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #66

Wasn't doing it to elicit sympathy SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #68

Rules Apply Across The Board ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #72

You're comparing apples to pears SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #73

You Completely Missed The Point ProfessorGAC Jul 2022 #74

Just because I don't agree SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #75

Property taxes might work, but that's only at the local level. Zeitghost Jul 2022 #44

Yep SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #48

Ok, then let's bring church status in parity with other non-profits SouthernDem4ever Jul 2022 #111

I agree 100% on the salary limitations SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #113

Definitely. I was disappointed when I heard what United Way was paying execs SouthernDem4ever Jul 2022 #114

How can you say they have no profit slightlv Jul 2022 #42

+1 peppertree Jul 2022 #46

Pastors Wages Zeitghost Jul 2022 #47

Makes it easy to blur the line between necessary and extravagant. SouthernDem4ever Jul 2022 #112

Government has come to rely on churches and other NGOs to provide assistance to the needy. Ziggysmom Jul 2022 #10

And the Amish shouldn't be exempt from Social Security taxes... PoliticAverse Jul 2022 #11

As I understand it, churches were made exempt from taxes Bettie Jul 2022 #13

That's a result not a cause SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #32

For a starter, H2O Man Jul 2022 #16

You mean like the lastest from Thomas increased my understanding? Ferrets are Cool Jul 2022 #31

There have been decent H2O Man Jul 2022 #35

let me put it this way, many of us put our money where our mouth is , ie feeding the poor, AllaN01Bear Jul 2022 #18

If all churches were like yours we would have no beef at all Walleye Jul 2022 #22

if the tammy and husband and pat roberts were convicted of wire fraund wed have no issues AllaN01Bear Jul 2022 #28

Their tax exempt status SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #23

It is a nonprofit treestar Jul 2022 #24

Exactly SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #26

You're not... it's ludicrous budkin Jul 2022 #25

You skipped a definition. Igel Jul 2022 #33

Simply, because not taxing does not equal endorsing a particular religion... Caliman73 Jul 2022 #36

because azureblue Jul 2022 #51

Tax every church, big or small. Orrex Jul 2022 #53

Will you hold other non-profits to the same regulation? SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #60

Are those other non-profits hiding from taxes under the banner of religion? Orrex Jul 2022 #78

Actually, they're not tax-exempt SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #86

Any time there's talk of taxing churches, the zealots howl about the first amendment Orrex Jul 2022 #99

Sorry, I don't play gorxha SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #103

Other businesses Zeitghost Jul 2022 #62

Tax their property just like any other business. Orrex Jul 2022 #79

Property taxes would work Zeitghost Jul 2022 #84

You won't get an answer SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #87

Sounds exactly like you're endorsing church-based money laundering Orrex Jul 2022 #95

I'm pointing out the problems with treating churches like for profit businesses Zeitghost Jul 2022 #104

The 16th Amendment exempts churches & other religious orgs from taxation. oldsoftie Jul 2022 #56

You're not wrong, and here's what you can do about it. Geechie Jul 2022 #57

Here's a list of possible violations for tax exempt entities: scipan Jul 2022 #76

You're not missing a thing. patphil Jul 2022 #61

Property taxes are local not federal SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2022 #70

Income and tax on real estate holdings. patphil Jul 2022 #77

Sure does seem like it! calimary Jul 2022 #64

If a church deals with influencing government it should lose tax exempt status. Kablooie Jul 2022 #69

"Establishment" was a very specific thing quaker bill Jul 2022 #88