General Discussion

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts) Tue Jul 19, 2022, 10:26 AM Jul 2022

I cannot believe that 'when the soul enters the body' is actually part of the abortion debate [View all]

in any remotely serious way.

Specifically I've seen people being interviewed on news shows talking about this idea, and then the host credulously going along with it, like it's an actual 'thing'.

Souls are supernatural/magical beings, and therefore ... they're not real. There's no such thing. They're a made-up idea, to comfort people who are scared of death (because 'your soul' is the church-advertised vessel of one's immortality).

And even if you do entertain this (imho, absurd) concept based on your 'faith', it's still the case that it's based on 'religion', and different ideas about when that process (lol) 'happens' abound across different major religions.

So at the very least, if we're just abandoning separation of church and state, and placing everyone's 'faith' (and belief in magical beings) at the top of the proverbial food chain, shouldn't there be 'religious exemptions' that allow abortion for people of faiths who do NOT condemn abortions before a certain point?

255 replies

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I cannot believe that 'when the soul enters the body' is actually part of the abortion debate [View all] Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 OP

NO NO NO!! You are completely missing the point. There is only ONE "True niyad Jul 2022 #1

There is that, I'm with you ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #8

Several faiths are already challenging this in FL Nevilledog Jul 2022 #15

I imagine there will be many challenges from individuals who believe they wiggs Jul 2022 #79

God, I hope so (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #191

When one of our Supremes quotes an old witch-burner as a for-the-ages jurist, & 5 others sign on... Hekate Jul 2022 #84

Wasn't that only Alito's draft opinion? mrsadm Jul 2022 #108

Let me know what you find out. I thought it made it to the final as well Hekate Jul 2022 #122

No, also in the final. That was the first thing I checked. nt pnwmom Jul 2022 #204

Written by the same people who thought that dust blows up into a woman to impregnate them. TheBlackAdder Jul 2022 #96

They knew it was from ejaculation, they weren't THAT dumb (around the time of Jesus I mean) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #124

If sperm is the "seed of life", isn't male masturbation akin to abortion? Solomon Jul 2022 #243

That WAS the religious position for many years, yup Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #245

im so glad im atheist! samnsara Jul 2022 #2

It is all quite ridiculous. Where in the human anatomy is the soul located? brush Jul 2022 #51

What happens when a person receives a transplant? LiberalFighter Jul 2022 #57

I know, right. Is it part of the medical delivery that's... brush Jul 2022 #65

Finally, we discover the reason for the appendix! Xavier Breath Jul 2022 #167

Oh, you might be on to something...but then again...not. brush Jul 2022 #169

Non-believer? Bayard Jul 2022 #3

... Nevilledog Jul 2022 #18

+1000 lindysalsagal Jul 2022 #25

Perfect! pandr32 Jul 2022 #49

The deepest desire of the Christian warriors is to be seated ... sanatanadharma Jul 2022 #73

Welcome to the Republican Theocracy, Hugh Diamond_Dog Jul 2022 #4

You know I feel you sister! Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #52

+1000 n/t cate94 Jul 2022 #60

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Irish_Dem Jul 2022 #5

When soul enters Kentuckykel Jul 2022 #6

Welcome to our DU family. niyad Jul 2022 #9

That is your belief, but not a fact. MineralMan Jul 2022 #12

Proof of the soul Kentuckykel Jul 2022 #125

So, I'm supposed to look it up for myself? MineralMan Jul 2022 #129

No, there is not, and yes they are ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #130

Of course, you realize that your opinion is just as faith-based as the other side relayerbob Jul 2022 #192

You know I love ya Bob (or at least I hope so) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #195

I obviously agree 100% with your points onlaws relayerbob Jul 2022 #214

I'm not trying to force my 'beliefs' onto you Sir Bob ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #220

Your constant attempt relayerbob Jul 2022 #221

Dude, you entirely miss the point, once again ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #226

I love it when people say "they are done" relayerbob Jul 2022 #231

You're hilarious. And I'm done (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #240

The uncertainty principle is not something ... muriel_volestrangler Jul 2022 #248

Posting opinions on the internet you don't agree with does not constitute "force". Mariana Jul 2022 #239

I agree with you mvd Jul 2022 #207

Absolutely agree. relayerbob Jul 2022 #215

I am Christian and do believe that we have a soul (I think animals do, too, especially our phylny Jul 2022 #218

I'm curious how far down the ladder you think "souls" go. Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #230

For me, personally, life-energy exists in everything relayerbob Jul 2022 #242

This is great, we may've reached a consensus around your life-energy theory Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #250

It's a subset of it, yes relayerbob Jul 2022 #251

Are you really curious? Why? phylny Jul 2022 #253

Because I'm trying to understand why some people think Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #254

+1, uponit7771 Jul 2022 #200

Yes they are Handler Jul 2022 #255

Why don't you provide a link to a source that can prove your assertion? Gaugamela Jul 2022 #13

Because no such link exists, nor does any evidence supporting the existence of a soul. MineralMan Jul 2022 #14

Take a look at PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2022 #166

Why don't you have your God give me a call, since he's real and all? Nevilledog Jul 2022 #20

No, they are not real, there's no such thing as magical/supernatural beings Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #21

The basic laws of chemistry and thermodynamics are already violated by the big bang Calculating Jul 2022 #48

My theory on this ... it's because there was never 'nothing'? Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #83

That's not a correct summation of the Big Bang TiberiusB Jul 2022 #90

I've read where the eternal universe theory slightlv Jul 2022 #133

Great post!!! (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #138

Sigh...sorry you're having to respond to this crap in your thread my friend Docreed2003 Jul 2022 #196

Nobody I'd rather party with in the afterlife than you brotha ... if there is one ;) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #197

Oh you had it handled for sure...I just had to eyeroll at some of the responses Docreed2003 Jul 2022 #199

I don't believe in souls -- but I DO believe in trolls. Girard442 Jul 2022 #27

My belief.... JanLip Jul 2022 #33

And I'm not a troll. JanLip Jul 2022 #37

You're welcome to believe whatever you are able to believe. MineralMan Jul 2022 #45

Huh. JanLip Jul 2022 #94

This right here phylny Jul 2022 #219

Did you mean consciousness rather than conscience? Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #67

Further, what is "consciousness'? sanatanadharma Jul 2022 #82

That is a whole other and much more interesting discussion. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #88

What I meant. JanLip Jul 2022 #128

So I think you meant conscience as in a moral function Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #144

Again this is my belief JanLip Jul 2022 #159

I understand it is your belief. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #161

Brain function JanLip Jul 2022 #164

Religion/Faith has a lot of utility in a lot of people's lives Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #212

Against organized religion JanLip Jul 2022 #217

And where would one "read up on" the existence of these undetectable "souls"? mwb970 Jul 2022 #46

How exactly does that work? Is there an off/on indicator... brush Jul 2022 #61

Where in the body is the soul located and how Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #62

And I'm wondering what happens when a person receives a transplant LiberalFighter Jul 2022 #70

Descartes tried to get around the problems Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #85

Right, don't put Descartes They_Live Jul 2022 #92

Brilliant!!! N/T bluecollar2 Jul 2022 #123

Ha ha! Solomon Jul 2022 #249

Your personal beliefs should be respected. luvtheGWN Jul 2022 #66

Why? Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #145

Religion is DIFFERENT you see, cause it's like 'deeply held beliefs' and shit Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #155

Being of Irish ancestry that was recent history. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #158

This is nothing close to a fact. Don't fall prey to the con men. Handler Jul 2022 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author Handler Jul 2022 #100

There are more than a "couple" of theories on this: Sogo Jul 2022 #105

And absolutely none of them deserve the imprimatur of the word 'theory' (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #115

don't bother NJCher Jul 2022 #132

Thanks for all y'all putting up with me rants Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #136

Because things happen in people's minds Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #154

The table of contents looks impressive BruceWane Jul 2022 #165

Thanks for taking it up in my stead ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #173

will check into NJCher Jul 2022 #175

bigelow's political contributions NJCher Jul 2022 #177

Wrong again BruceWane Jul 2022 #180

wrong again: you NJCher Jul 2022 #198

I notice you didn't apologize for suggesting BruceWane is a liar. Mariana Jul 2022 #205

with his record of faulty reasoning and using logical fallacies to make his point NJCher Jul 2022 #208

I want to make this perfectly clear NJCher Jul 2022 #209

Don't you think that the man who financed the contest might've PICKED judges Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #216

Lol! Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #153

I'll ask you, too NJCher Jul 2022 #210

Clearly, then many GQPpers should be removed from the planet relayerbob Jul 2022 #7

A most excellent point. niyad Jul 2022 #10

+11 Higherarky Jul 2022 #168

Let's fire up the anti-religious bigotry for another round of snark Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #11

I always wonder sarisataka Jul 2022 #17

I assume there is criticism by-stealth. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #23

I hate the god spew from all politicians. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #35

Hardly anyone cares if religious people refer to their religion. Mariana Jul 2022 #141

This! (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #149

It makes me cringe Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #156

Oh, well. I guess we have to entertain the existence of the soul when making public policy. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2022 #24

Yup, you can always count on me for that Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #26

Ah and there it is. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #32

You bet your ass there it is. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #34

You support theocratic fascism? Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #38

Insults in the form of a question are still insults. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #72

Is it ok with you to mock theocratic fascism? Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #139

The OP was not "bigoted", and that's a crappy accusation to make of a DUer muriel_volestrangler Jul 2022 #74

Nice attempt at "reframing" Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #76

I'm sorry, your post appears to have been cut off muriel_volestrangler Jul 2022 #80

Lol. Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #163

So if you think beliefs are stupid that makes you a bigot? Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #162

Always the threats when we dare to express our opinions. Mariana Jul 2022 #47

& now, a musical interlude, courtesy of the almighty goddess of humor, all praise be Higherarky Jul 2022 #174

+1000 MineralMan Jul 2022 #213

The religious deserve no respect because they are always wanting us to bow to their delusions alphafemale Jul 2022 #91

Bigoted intolerance is not permitted under the board rules (because that behavior sucks). Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #93

Have you reported the posts that you consider "bigoted" and "intolerant"? Mariana Jul 2022 #143

My problem is just with people trying to make THEIR religion Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #147

My belief is Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #222

Absolutely false "reframing." I have made no such arguments. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #223

You are being bizarrely selective. Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #224

Criticising political beliefs or the actions of religious figures isn't bigotry. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #232

That argument is just downright nonsensical. Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #233

The so-called "ridiculous rules" are written into this websites TOS Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #235

I'm not going to pretend to "respect" beliefs that recently turned me Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #237

We don't have grounds for further discussion. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #238

Not all religious people wish to strip you or anyone else of your freedoms ... Mariana Jul 2022 #241

Exactly. sop Jul 2022 #99

For the record, I'm religious and I agree with you. A lot of white American Christians especially DickKessler Jul 2022 #119

I'm a person of faith and I don't see any anti-religious bigotry here. DickKessler Jul 2022 #114

Poor thing alphafemale Jul 2022 #170

I'm a lifelong atheist, but thanks for the snark. Just A Box Of Rain Jul 2022 #194

I know a lot of these radical anti-choice people Dread Pirate Roberts Jul 2022 #16

Like when Reagan nominated Watt for Interior way back when . . . hatrack Jul 2022 #19

Was he the one who was fired for making some horrifically bigoted "jokes?" DickKessler Jul 2022 #117

That was the guy . . . hatrack Jul 2022 #120

Exactly. I was 14 when that happened and that attitude and Reagan's anti-woman religious bullshit Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #225

I remember talking to a Christian many years ago when I first starting meeting some who self captain queeg Jul 2022 #22

When you point out a blatant contradiction they say "That's God's mystery". mwb970 Jul 2022 #44

So their god is not willing to share that mystery with them. LiberalFighter Jul 2022 #77

According to the Bible Mariana Jul 2022 #183

Jesus and God are playing Super Secret Triple Blind Seven Dimensional Chess! Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #228

It's especially hard to come up with explanations under monotheisms. Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #227

That's an interesting insight. mwb970 Jul 2022 #252

Recommended. H2O Man Jul 2022 #28

I won't play devil's advocate, sarisataka Jul 2022 #29

There is much confusion malaise Jul 2022 #30

Everybody knows that assholes enter their bodies at "quickening". jaxexpat Jul 2022 #78

Bwaaaaaah malaise Jul 2022 #110

Careful, you might get scolded for mocking religious beliefs. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #31

Consider yourself hereby scolded! Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #54

Please sir, may I have another? Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #55

Yes, I hereby deliver another scolding, this one even harsher than the last Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #64

What did the masochist say to the sadist? Higherarky Jul 2022 #182

Lol ... I was hoping someone would get my joke Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #203

I don't think he's doing that treestar Jul 2022 #56

Well just look up thread. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #59

The delivery needs some work here Calculating Jul 2022 #36

Yeah why treat people like they are grown ass adults. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #41

I thought it was fine. mwb970 Jul 2022 #42

Prove it Calculating Jul 2022 #50

The burden of proof is on those... AnrothElf Jul 2022 #69

That which is posited w/o evidence Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #148

Fair enough, I'm not proposing my (I guess, strident?) views should be in our political platform Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #58

let me explain azureblue Jul 2022 #39

Bronze Age thinking. mwb970 Jul 2022 #40

I've always wondered at the religious root of this... forgotmylogin Jul 2022 #43

Not to quibble, but "immaculate conception" applies to Mary, not Jesus. mwb970 Jul 2022 #87

Interesting, I always thought it referred to Jesus's birth . Thanks for the heads up... Handler Jul 2022 #126

I did too, up until I happened to read a book about Christianity. mwb970 Jul 2022 #150

And the mental gymnastics required to wrap your brain around that is remarkable. bluesbassman Jul 2022 #127

Pretzel logic indeed. mwb970 Jul 2022 #152

The whole antiabortion movement in politics violates the separation clause Warpy Jul 2022 #53

You are overthinking it. Caliman73 Jul 2022 #63

Religion doesn't enter into it-it's a scam Marthe48 Jul 2022 #68

You know... sagetea Jul 2022 #71

I agree, I do not have religious beliefs at all but I do believe Bev54 Jul 2022 #75

Catholics also distinguish between "apparent death" and "actual death" milestogo Jul 2022 #81

If you study quantum mechanics, you will find that it does not prove the "soul" exists, Dysfunctional Jul 2022 #86

Yeah, no I really doubt I would find that, even if I study quantum mechanics Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #97

I didn't write those religions had scientific knowledge about the soul. Dysfunctional Jul 2022 #102

I didn't say you did, I explained why I doubt the fundamental idea in play Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #113

No, it's not "scientifically possible" muriel_volestrangler Jul 2022 #142

Quantum Physics gets rolled out because it Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #160

It is not an immortal soul. What physicists are talking about is energy. Dysfunctional Jul 2022 #178

If it's energy, then call it energy. Mariana Jul 2022 #186

I was trying, but not doing it too well that there is a difference between religious soul Dysfunctional Jul 2022 #189

Define 'soul' and the explain how quantum mechanics Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #140

It is not a soul in the religious sense. Actually, it is totally different. Dysfunctional Jul 2022 #176

I'll wait. Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #179

I was wrong to use the word "soul". Dysfunctional Jul 2022 #187

Ok. So what does energy have to do with this thread? Voltaire2 Jul 2022 #201

Consciousness takes 6-7 months 867-5309. Jul 2022 #89

And I'm amenable to THAT ... because it's at least arguably a legitimate demarcation point Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #116

You are correct... Handler Jul 2022 #95

The question of when the soul enters the body Mad_Machine76 Jul 2022 #101

Agree. txwhitedove Jul 2022 #107

A great alternate summation of what I was trying to say, thanks :) (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #202

K&R Solly Mack Jul 2022 #103

This thread really underscores why religious belief should never be a part of political debate. sop Jul 2022 #104

R'amen Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #211

Fantasy Industrial Complex at Work kairos12 Jul 2022 #106

Given the high failure rate of embryonic development, the religious have to explain why God punishes andym Jul 2022 #109

Oh, that one's easy. Mariana Jul 2022 #146

so God is a republican? DBoon Jul 2022 #185

It's the ultimate "might makes right". Mariana Jul 2022 #206

Right-wingers often say that separation of church and state only protects churches from the state. DickKessler Jul 2022 #111

Me neither. NNadir Jul 2022 #112

It'll get scary when some judge Mr.Bill Jul 2022 #118

Thank God I'm an athiest nt intrepidity Jul 2022 #121

It was central to the Roe V Wade decision Tumbulu Jul 2022 #131

Great post, thx for the history lesson! Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #134

You are most welcome Tumbulu Jul 2022 #137

Yes. I agree with "religious exemptions", Higherarky Jul 2022 #135

Exactly. I can't believe modern people still believe Sky Jewels Jul 2022 #151

You would think that with the medical imaging technology Noodleboy13 Jul 2022 #157

That's what it's about for forced birth Christianity ismnotwasm Jul 2022 #171

K&R spanone Jul 2022 #172

As a PhD Biologist, Texas A&M, I have 2 words for the 'life begins at' debate' Model35mech Jul 2022 #181

Soul is real DBoon Jul 2022 #184

THAT kinda soul ... for sure mr. minutemen Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #190

I avoid those news shows. Progressive dog Jul 2022 #188

The Church of Holy Hateful Wrath (formerly, U.S.A.) shall smite thee, non-believer! Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2022 #193

Always has been. Government of, by, and for the people. Hortensis Jul 2022 #229

Really, the entire question of "ensoulment" is specious. MineralMan Jul 2022 #234

The only thing relevant to this discussion is we shouldn't even be having it GoodRaisin Jul 2022 #236

Hence my complaint ;) (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #244

Women's right to control their own body RANDYWILDMAN Jul 2022 #246

That would be 1st and foremost by a long stretch ... Hugh_Lebowski Jul 2022 #247