General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

152. I don't understand why there's this need or attempt to muddy concepts like "consenting adults"

Sat Jan 14, 2012, 06:40 PM

Jan 2012

either we have concepts like consent and adults, or we don't. We can play all sorts of games as to whether humans are clockwork or orange or what is motivating who to do which, where.

What if women who have been abused are more likely to get abortions? Does that mean they shouldn't be in charge of their own bodies? How far into peoples' heads do we need to go to search out a justitication for, again, controlling the choices of CONSENTING ADULTS?

If we are to have ANY sort of standard (which is what we're talking about, right? Unless the real goal is to have a platform in which to fire off zingers like "vessels for masturbation&quot and that standard is based upon CONSENT and ADULTS, we have to allow that some people may make choices we don't agree with, some people may have opaque or even bad motivations for making those choices, etc.

But they are ADULTS and if they state that they are consenting, then that is the line which we must use.

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What Consenting Adults Do In Private Is Their Own Business. Period. [View all] Yavin4 Jan 2012 OP

Thank you. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #1

What about cruelty to animals? Shrek Jan 2012 #2

Animals Cannot Give Consent Yavin4 Jan 2012 #5

I'm not sure how that's relevant to your post Shrek Jan 2012 #8

Animals Cannot Give Consent Yavin4 Jan 2012 #11

Sure, I'm not disputing that at all. Shrek Jan 2012 #14

Because the animal can not consent, it is not legal. Even if the adults do consent. jeff47 Jan 2012 #71

I think the OP was referring to mutual agreement by two human beings. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #80

Yavin4 has clearly answered your 'question' a number of times now. Matariki Jan 2012 #83

You seem to be actively striving to miss the OP's point. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2012 #99

Because no one ever wants to argue the actual point, they need to drag in non-consent & non-adults Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #150

if the post read: Jamastiene Jan 2012 #110

An animal is not a consenting adult. Puregonzo1188 Jan 2012 #156

The OP didn't bring up animals. You did. The OP has made their position clear. yardwork Jan 2012 #134

Therefore, the flushing a goldfish down the toilet is illegal also? LanternWaste Jan 2012 #139

Bad analogy.. MicaelS Jan 2012 #6

None n/t Shrek Jan 2012 #10

I think its painfully obvious from the OP that anything like that it unacceptable. phleshdef Jan 2012 #7

Wow! slutticus Jan 2012 #115

The Missionary position is the only Angry Dragon Jan 2012 #3

You Forgot That The Lights Have To Be Off Yavin4 Jan 2012 #12

if the lights are turned off then the Angry Dragon Jan 2012 #52

Night vision goggles? The Genealogist Jan 2012 #77

As they do their armed patrol of the neighborhoods?? Angry Dragon Jan 2012 #91

Sure! The Genealogist Jan 2012 #109

What do you think the original purpose of drones was? Jamastiene Jan 2012 #111

Agree 100%... MicaelS Jan 2012 #4

You Should Check out Ken Burns' Documentary on Prohibition Yavin4 Jan 2012 #9

Recorded it on Tivo...plus I bought the book MicaelS Jan 2012 #23

There, that was nice and simple. :) woo me with science Jan 2012 #13

I haven't heard anyone say otherwise Whisp Jan 2012 #15

If Someone Was Abused As A Child, Then We Should Get them The Help That They Need Yavin4 Jan 2012 #21

I'm not talking about that. Whisp Jan 2012 #36

"but can a woman be said to give full consent when her life has been ruined by abuse" Yavin4 Jan 2012 #65

I'll repost this here: Whisp Jan 2012 #79

First, you've yet to back up your stat. jeff47 Jan 2012 #92

it is not 'my' stat Whisp Jan 2012 #95

You are the one presenting the stat as truthful. jeff47 Jan 2012 #98

I stopped doing link wars way back when Whisp Jan 2012 #105

So, didn't find any to back up your claim then? jeff47 Jan 2012 #120

I'll let you think you won this one. Whisp Jan 2012 #123

The definition of consent does not change LadyHawkAZ Jan 2012 #154

I would guess that the majority... Wait Wut Jan 2012 #144

They don't care. redqueen Jan 2012 #22

I like this one: Whisp Jan 2012 #96

Do you realize how insulting that is? LeftyMom Jan 2012 #38

I disagree. Whisp Jan 2012 #40

I have. LeftyMom Jan 2012 #51

you can't be saying that Whisp Jan 2012 #53

Where am I saying that? LeftyMom Jan 2012 #58

the 25% are not victims. I already said that. Whisp Jan 2012 #67

Using Your Logic, If A Person Experienced Sexual Abuse, Then They Can Never Give Adult Consent Yavin4 Jan 2012 #68

no Whisp Jan 2012 #69

Please. redqueen Jan 2012 #70

There will always be assholes who take advantage of emotionally traumatized women for sex Hugabear Jan 2012 #73

What I am asking here of DUers Whisp Jan 2012 #74

Should a man who has sex with such a woman be considered guilty of rape? Hugabear Jan 2012 #78

not at all. Whisp Jan 2012 #86

So, If Someon Experienced Sexual Abuse As A Child... Yavin4 Jan 2012 #82

no, I guess you still don't understand what I am asking... Whisp Jan 2012 #87

Consent is consent Hugabear Jan 2012 #97

is it really so black and white? Whisp Jan 2012 #101

Straw man argument Hugabear Jan 2012 #107

that's your question at hand, not mine. Whisp Jan 2012 #108

Yes, it is black and white. woo me with science Jan 2012 #124

another whoooooosh! Whisp Jan 2012 #125

Is it black and white? Yes. You yourself do a disservice to both child abuse victims & rape victims Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #153

We are looking on them as humans jeff47 Jan 2012 #85

see my post 87 Whisp Jan 2012 #88

I don't understand why there's this need or attempt to muddy concepts like "consenting adults" Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #152

If they can not consent, then you do not think they can't be out on their own. jeff47 Jan 2012 #76

Consent is not a black and white issue. redqueen Jan 2012 #81

Consent and exploitation are not the same. jeff47 Jan 2012 #89

There are lies, damn lies, and there are statistics. redqueen Jan 2012 #93

If you can't prove the problem exists, why should we put people in jail to solve it? jeff47 Jan 2012 #102

How many of the men, mostly perhaps, have also been abused, mistreated, raped, taught jtuck004 Jan 2012 #118

That's a very good point and I also think that the OP is a good point. This is the grey area. yardwork Jan 2012 #135

So women who have been abused are children, unable to ever make decisions about their own lives? Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #147

Meanwhile, the "mile high" club could be flying over your house while you worry about the gestapo. Democrats_win Jan 2012 #16

+1... SidDithers Jan 2012 #17

Very much in line with my own thinking on the matter Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2012 #18

me me me... i only have to think about ME. oh wait... progressive? nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #19

What do you mean? DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #20

i am saying it is another call out thread on the prostitution thread. stating buy a body to use,... seabeyond Jan 2012 #24

So, No One Else Is Allowed To State An Opinion? Yavin4 Jan 2012 #28

i didnt tell you not to state an opinion. you stated your opinion. then i stated mine. seabeyond Jan 2012 #32

thank you for the explanation DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #30

so it is all about me me me and fuck everyone else. ok. we differ in opinion. i dont think it is seabeyond Jan 2012 #35

sure, no problem. Just let us know the appropriate hour and day to post about our own concerns DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #41

Please Charlemagne Jan 2012 #43

I don't think there's anything selfish about staying the hell out of other people's bedrooms Major Nikon Jan 2012 #114

You think it's progressive to dictate to others what they can or cannot do in their bedrooms? Upton Jan 2012 #33

I Like How You Project Your Own Arguments and Just Ignore My OP Yavin4 Jan 2012 #34

but the argument has already been explained to you why you a statement like that is false. seabeyond Jan 2012 #39

from the OP Charlemagne Jan 2012 #42

If Making Prostituion Illegal Gets Rid of Child Sex Slavery... Yavin4 Jan 2012 #49

From the OP... uppityperson Jan 2012 #66

Is every thread a call out thread... Charlemagne Jan 2012 #37

I guess you remember the Roman Polanski defenders here... Whisp Jan 2012 #44

Can't Speak for Other Posters, But I Clearly Stated Adult Consent Yavin4 Jan 2012 #45

was that response to you? Whisp Jan 2012 #47

was that response to you? no Charlemagne Jan 2012 #50

no, Polanski's victim was tho. Whisp Jan 2012 #54

"so I have no idea why he jumped in and tries to tell me what I can talk about and what I can't." Charlemagne Jan 2012 #55

you his lawyer? Whisp Jan 2012 #57

Nope Charlemagne Jan 2012 #59

Strangely enough, other posters don't need your consent to respond to your comments. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2012 #103

that is strange Whisp Jan 2012 #104

yup. lol. i have heard it all. also a hoot in that hawkings thread seabeyond Jan 2012 #46

We are listening Charlemagne Jan 2012 #48

excuse me sir, but you seem to have Whisp Jan 2012 #56

Or we could try discussing the issues Charlemagne Jan 2012 #60

yes daddy Whisp Jan 2012 #61

Ok Charlemagne Jan 2012 #62

okey dokey Whisp Jan 2012 #64

It was mildly cute, for a minute. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #84

as you are Whisp Jan 2012 #90

and this means? DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #94

Children can not consent. They do not apply to the OP. jeff47 Jan 2012 #72

I'm Thinking About Everyone Yavin4 Jan 2012 #26

What's fucking selfish is wallowing in the delusion that it's your job to run other peoples' lives. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #148

Unless they're smoking cigarettes, then it may also be their employers business. n/t hughee99 Jan 2012 #25

But..but...some of the things they do are vewy, vewy, naughty, and, even worse, pleasurable. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #27

yep. barbtries Jan 2012 #29

I love your Charlemagne Jan 2012 #31

I f married, these couples HockeyMom Jan 2012 #63

Absolutely +1000. polly7 Jan 2012 #75

Hey the teabaggers are all for freedom from big goobermint... workinclasszero Jan 2012 #100

Unless they are killing each other, selling/buying people or children, etc... Rex Jan 2012 #106

it is very simple quinnox Jan 2012 #112

are you referring to prostitution or homosexuality or both? tnvoter Jan 2012 #113

It doesn't get simpler than that. slutticus Jan 2012 #116

what would you say to this incident then? provis99 Jan 2012 #117

If everyone involved can consent, yes. jeff47 Jan 2012 #121

No. This Is Wrong. Yavin4 Jan 2012 #122

Acceptable is not the same as illegal(I know you know this). Fokker Trip Jan 2012 #136

so murdering someone to eat them is all cultural? Ok then. provis99 Jan 2012 #155

Yup. /nt jtuck004 Jan 2012 #119

How offensive some of these conclusions are. woo me with science Jan 2012 #126

Seconded n/t Prophet 451 Jan 2012 #127

so true. i was molested as a child La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2012 #130

Devil's advocate here Prophet 451 Jan 2012 #128

thank you..I was beginning to think the authoritarians were dominating the left as much as they Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #129

They sure do seem to be coming out of the closet around here though. Fokker Trip Jan 2012 #137

A-fucking-men! n/t backscatter712 Jan 2012 #131

in general, I agree but consider if I want to manufacture crystal meth and base cocaine maggiesfarmer Jan 2012 #132

Intersting question. Fokker Trip Jan 2012 #138

Disagree... Hepburn Jan 2012 #141

AMEN!!! knr Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #133

A-fucking-men Hepburn Jan 2012 #140

Much like wearing a burka. LanternWaste Jan 2012 #142

That's a really interesting issue and so topical. Fokker Trip Jan 2012 #143

I wouldn't tell a woman who wanted to wear a burka that she couldn't. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #149

This is the greatness of America, spoken as a Canadian. Fokker Trip Jan 2012 #145

what about if I operate a pay-day loan business charging 25% interest? maggiesfarmer Jan 2012 #146

Sorry I'm late to the party. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #151