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In reply to the discussion: Trumps lawyers are telling us they have no defense in the secret document investigation. [View all]FBaggins
(27,904 posts)62. No it didn't.
Jackson's ruling doesn't say that Clinton's tapes were marked as personal. Indeed, you won't find the word "marked" in the ruling at all.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCOURTS-dcd-1_10-cv-01834/pdf/USCOURTS-dcd-1_10-cv-01834-0.pdf
While MSNBC is correct that the ruling distinguished presidential/personal (using the language of the statute)... it's also true that she said that
NARA does not have the authority to designate materials as Presidential records, NARA does not have the tapes in question, and NARA lacks any right, duty, or means to seize control of them. In other words, there has been no showing that a remedy would be available to redress plaintiffs alleged injury even if the Court agreed with plaintiffs characterization of the materials.
Indeed, she appears to say (in footnote 2) that merely taking the recordings with him at the end of his presidency was proof that they were personal records. And then there's:
In the Courts view, plaintiff reads too much into this statement. Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the Presidents term and in his sole discretion
...snip...
Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office, it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records.
...snip...
Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office, it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records.
Now - This is mostly dicta and not an appellate court or SCOTUS. It isn't precedent-setting. It merely shows that the common interpretation that PRA means that presidents can't take anything with them at all when they leave office because everything is a record and all of the records are the government's property... is not as cut and dried as some suggest. Non-MAGA judges have seen things in much the same way as TFG would like Cannon to see them.
I'm not saying that it necessarily wins in the end. But the reason that so many are pushing back hard on the special master ruling isn't less that it helps Trump win this argument. It's really that it moves the argument from occurring after an indictment (or even after a conviction on appeal) and puts all of that time-consuming constitutional maneuvering up in front of DOJ even being able to consider a prosecution.
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Trumps lawyers are telling us they have no defense in the secret document investigation. [View all]
fightforfreedom
Sep 2022
OP
There is no honor in endangering the National Security of the US of A.
Justice matters.
Sep 2022
#29
Even Dershowitz conceded they had probable cause for the warrant and enough to indict
Jarqui
Sep 2022
#9
That's an argument that hasn't been challenged and upheld in court in similar circumstances
FBaggins
Sep 2022
#23
re: "prosecution's job to prove that they had not been. And, legally, they have a point."
thesquanderer
Sep 2022
#46
The PRA isn't written so ambiguous as to make any document TFG can think of a "personal record" ...
uponit7771
Sep 2022
#24
Under PRA (link) "Personal records" are defined and not willy nilly anything a president claims.
uponit7771
Sep 2022
#38
Jackson's ruling in regards to Clinton tapes in "sock drawer" case Clinton's tapes were CLEARLY ...
uponit7771
Sep 2022
#48
We agree that NARA doesn't have authority to designated records but that's not ...
uponit7771
Sep 2022
#64
Why does everyone keep forgetting Donald Trump has an army of judges on his side?
Heather MC
Sep 2022
#13
America has had 3 people @ the level of espionage that Trump might have been at and they were:
Botany
Sep 2022
#27
"All Trump and his lawyers can do is delay, create chaos in the justice system."
progressoid
Sep 2022
#34
I have had the thought that Cannon doesn't believe what she says, but rather...
thesquanderer
Sep 2022
#50
re: "irrelevant when it comes to the possible charges listed in the warrant. It is not a defense"
thesquanderer
Sep 2022
#49
You'd almost think they're just wanting to delay, delay, and milk the rubes.
Beartracks
Sep 2022
#73