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EX500rider

(12,137 posts)
66. Unfortunately they have a large stockpile of S300 SAM missile, like 7,000
Sun Oct 2, 2022, 01:23 PM
Oct 2022
October 2, 2022: A survey of Russian anti-aircraft batteries, using commercial satellite photos, has shown that Russia has been shutting down S300 (surface to air missiles) batteries around Russian cities and moving the missiles and launchers to the Ukrainian border, where the missiles are used to attack surface targets. The new S400 SAM began replacing S300s about fifteen years ago, but progress has been slow because of economic sanctions imposed in 2014 and 2022, The military budget has declined and the S300 missiles, radars and launchers are not getting any upgrades because the S400 is much more effective (with twice the range of the S300) and one S400 battery can do the work of two or more S300 batteries. Mainly this is about the sanctions making it impossible for Russia to manufacture new guided missiles to use against Ukraine. This is why there have been fewer guided missiles used against Ukrainian targets in the last month but a lot more less accurate unguided missiles and S300 SAMs. At least 500 S300 missiles have been used so far against surface targets in Ukraine and there are still 7,000 S300 missiles available for hitting surface targets. Some S300 batteries are still used in Ukraine or from Russia. Not a lot of these are needed because the Ukrainians have developed systems and tactics that minimize the effectiveness of the S300 as a SAM.

Back in July Ukraine warned that Russia was beginning to use its 1.8-ton S300 (SA-10) SAMs as SSMs (surface to surface missiles). The allegation was based on Belarus revealing that they had recently tested S300s used as SSMs. The S300 was known to have been designed with SSM capability. That means one of launch options includes SSM mode. There are two major limitations to using a SAM as an SSM. One is accuracy at longer ranges. Russian SAMs are guided to the target using a ground-based targeting radar that guides the S300 to aerial targets up to 150 kilometers away. SAMs are programmed to self-destruct if they miss their target so that the missile and its small (100-200 kg) warhead does not land on friendly territory. Used as an SSM the self-destruct is disabled and the guidance system aims the missile at a ground location, but with less accuracy than against aerial targets. Russia has apparently modified the SSM option to include a GPS option that directs the SAM to a specific ground location. The GPS option works, but not as accurately as expected. Ukraine believes that the Russians are running out of SSM missiles and using S300s as SSMs because there is not much need for their SAM capabilities, especially with the more recent and capable S400 now available. The Ukrainian prediction was apparently correct.


https://strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20221002.aspx

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

We've disagreed a bit in this... let me ask you this? Happy Hoosier Oct 2022 #1
Here's an example. WarGamer Oct 2022 #3
They've attempted to destroy a number of them... Happy Hoosier Oct 2022 #14
Part of me thinks there is some political reason... WarGamer Oct 2022 #16
A very large part of why they're so inept, MarineCombatEngineer Oct 2022 #29
Rampant alcoholism and poverty BlueIdaho Oct 2022 #54
That too. MarineCombatEngineer Oct 2022 #55
To the point that... Happy Hoosier Oct 2022 #38
Oh yes 100% WarGamer Oct 2022 #40
I mean qazplm135 Oct 2022 #20
Agreed. True Dough Oct 2022 #5
Yes, elleng Oct 2022 #8
Definitely, but to a point where they don't completely lose the plot OnDoutside Oct 2022 #57
I'm not at all convinced that the Russians can do these things. CanonRay Oct 2022 #53
Not an expert stevil Oct 2022 #2
true... but they're stuck now. WarGamer Oct 2022 #4
Yup. stevil Oct 2022 #28
IKR? MarineCombatEngineer Oct 2022 #36
Putin didn't want a full-scale war, just a "special military operation"... brush Oct 2022 #6
But now he's stuck. WarGamer Oct 2022 #9
Yes. They're losing, and now with Putin's micro-managing... brush Oct 2022 #13
I think their stockpiles of missiles etc are thinner than expected/believed. RockRaven Oct 2022 #7
That'd be incredible. WarGamer Oct 2022 #10
this Military Economist from Australia explains a lot.. Good stuff...but long mitch96 Oct 2022 #17
i'll watch i ttonight... thanks!! WarGamer Oct 2022 #18
someone did a deep dive including buying satellite imagery qazplm135 Oct 2022 #22
Occam's Razor I guess... WarGamer Oct 2022 #23
Indeed. Happy Hoosier Oct 2022 #39
+1, uponit7771 Oct 2022 #58
Unfortunately they have a large stockpile of S300 SAM missile, like 7,000 EX500rider Oct 2022 #66
Doesn't help when their military leaders are more loyal to Putin then they are competent. Kaleva Oct 2022 #11
I too have studied war history. Chainfire Oct 2022 #12
Yes and Putin just made the argument that the US legitimized the use of them in WW2. WarGamer Oct 2022 #15
He certainly has a point. Chainfire Oct 2022 #24
But I'm trying to figure out how a tactical nuke helps Russia... WarGamer Oct 2022 #25
I agree.. Happy Hoosier Oct 2022 #41
We did it on a nation that had enslaved and murdered millions of civilians CentralMass Oct 2022 #30
But, we did it. Because we did it, now it gets thrown back in our faces. Whadda you expect? Chainfire Oct 2022 #50
Trying to draw a corollary between the US using nuclear weapons against one of the most brutal CentralMass Oct 2022 #61
I agree Willto Oct 2022 #63
+1, I don't see how false equivalencies help uponit7771 Oct 2022 #59
As my Uncle stood on the bridge of a ship that would take them to the invasion of Japan...after Demsrule86 Oct 2022 #46
That is certainly how it is described in our history books. Chainfire Oct 2022 #52
Starving Japan into submission rather then dropping the bomb... EX500rider Oct 2022 #60
So you have to understand the mindset at the start qazplm135 Oct 2022 #19
I caught a lot of grief here pre-war... WarGamer Oct 2022 #21
He was KGB and wants to put back the old USSR...old men dream of past glory. Demsrule86 Oct 2022 #47
The ONLY reason i can think of, is maybe pooty wants to go nuclear? (this after he fucked up) bluestarone Oct 2022 #26
We would destroy them. There would be no other option. Demsrule86 Oct 2022 #48
Not to sure if we would choose that option bluestarone Oct 2022 #51
I believe what so perplexes us non-Russians in analyzing Russia's blunders has to do with Beastly Boy Oct 2022 #27
+1000, great points WarGamer Oct 2022 #33
One explanation: Putin is in charge. He is not a military genius. He is a psychopath and ex-KGB. Irish_Dem Oct 2022 #31
great post, tyvm! WarGamer Oct 2022 #34
YW. Irish_Dem Oct 2022 #43
Good points The Bopper Oct 2022 #32
Some of our so-called experts Mr.Bill Oct 2022 #35
They probably did have everything they needed Kaleva Oct 2022 #42
Everything but able personnel. n/t Mr.Bill Oct 2022 #49
Yes Kaleva Oct 2022 #62
Russian strategy is to yell Nukes! In a crowded world. 48656c6c6f20 Oct 2022 #37
When was the last time Russia fought a war on a scale like this? Yavin4 Oct 2022 #44
+1000 nt WarGamer Oct 2022 #45
Because that would be an escalation. Xolodno Oct 2022 #56
Nope Happy Hoosier Oct 2022 #64
A Follow-up on our conversation.... Happy Hoosier Oct 2022 #65
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