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Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)

41. The problem with your assessment is that Ron Paul is NOT really for civil liberties.

Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:16 PM

Dec 2011

He wants to dictate to women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies; he wants to restrict gay people from marrying, and he believes that corporations should operate freely without any restrictions...EVEN WHEN THEY IMPINGE ON CIVIL LIBERTIES.

There are some issues where Ron Paul and liberals are in complete agreement. However, the underlying rationale is not the same. Paul hates government. He has a disdain for government, and is nearly anarchist in his philosophy. Liberals are not in agreement with that philosophy and DO see a role for government, albeit a limited one in private affairs and social policies.

So whereas there is agreement on these issues, the rationale is completely different. I don't think, for instance, that most liberals would support doing away with the police and living in a lawless society where people carry guns freely without ANY regulations. Ron Paul's position would be contrarian to that.

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Please explain why some liberals support Ron Paul... [View all] Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 OP

Ayn Rand. comipinko Dec 2011 #1

lots of people have one major issue that they dwell on rurallib Dec 2011 #2

You�re right � Cigar11 Dec 2011 #3

It would be like having a beer with that guy in the Tom Rush song GoneOffShore Dec 2011 #72

Including the war on drugs. DocMac Dec 2011 #5

And the "liberals" that DO support him think socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #74

For my brother, who is generally not insane, but is an avid Paul supporter... Ed Suspicious Dec 2011 #4

Because they aren't reading the fine print. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #6

I think there's a difference between support catabryna Dec 2011 #7

In this sense, I speak of "support," not just "agree with." As I mentioned in my OP, I agree with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #14

I did read your entire post... catabryna Dec 2011 #22

Yep, I think many thinking people "agree" with Ron Paul. truedelphi Dec 2011 #50

I could never support a bigot no matter what other issue that I may be in agreement with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #67

I voted for Obama, and I would have voted for Clinton if she won the nomination. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #77

And Ron Paul is even MORE of a bigot towards the LGBT community. Next... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #99

I was addressing your comment ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #112

Support = "vote for" Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #114

Please cease and desist from comparing MoRon Paul to DK or progressives MattBaggins Dec 2011 #93

+1! Excellent!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #100

Not true. Republicrat059 Dec 2011 #116

2 reasons Ratty Dec 2011 #8

The ones that live around here all have one thing in common. They are all racist asscarrots NNN0LHI Dec 2011 #9

I'm inclined to agree wholeheartedly because even when you point out his bigotry, Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #37

War, occupation, and drugs Seedersandleechers Dec 2011 #10

Convictions can be poor measurements Lefergus70 Dec 2011 #86

The old saying "politics make strange bedfellows" applies The Genealogist Dec 2011 #11

Because they think they are liberals but they are really libertarians frazzled Dec 2011 #12

Yeah, I think that they are actually modern day Libertarians but not Libertarians in the Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #16

Anarchists really don't care what you do in your own home. harmonicon Dec 2011 #88

Well then Ron Paul is not an anarchist because he does care what you do in your own home... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #89

I know that. That was my point. harmonicon Dec 2011 #106

Got it! +1 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #111

you can't be a liberal and support Ron Paul Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #13

"You can't be a liberal and support Ron Paul." Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #17

agreed Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #20

It's similar to asking "How can you support Democrats, with all the wars, War on Drugs, etc."? Romulox Dec 2011 #15

You are correct! ctwayne Dec 2011 #81

A false perception of concurrence on some positions. Viking12 Dec 2011 #18

so if you don't support someone overall, they can't be right about ANYTHING? Did you take critical yurbud Dec 2011 #64

Where did I say that? Viking12 Dec 2011 #101

Because they are fuckin ignorant? johncoby2 Dec 2011 #19

Maybe if our party would get with the fucking program on personal liberty- ending the war on drugs- Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #21

Two words: Dennis Kucinich Ratty Dec 2011 #23

Meh. I've gone in and out in terms of Kooch. I actually had a phase in 2008 where I was backing him. Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #25

See my Post #26. I agree 100% Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #27

I think I agree with you Ratty Dec 2011 #30

Yes, if the choice is between Paul or Kucinich, obviously Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #36

In my view, Ron Paul is also morally bankrupt if he is (1) a bigot; (2) believes that a private Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #44

if you think I'm going to defend Ron Paul or those views, you've got the wrong guy Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #45

I hear you. No, we're on the same side. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #49

Yes. The other problem with Ron Paul is that he is NOT as principled as everyone seems to believe. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #40

Exactly! I supported Kucinich in 2008, but then he started to get crazy on me after that. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #26

there were several people hoping for a Kucinich/Paul ticket back in 2008 fishwax Dec 2011 #80

I would think Aerows Dec 2011 #24

Have I mentioned Ron Paul isn't anti-war? ProSense Dec 2011 #28

THANK YOU! redqueen Dec 2011 #47

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #58

stick to the facts Republicrat059 Dec 2011 #117

What is the mystery? Vattel Dec 2011 #29

The problem with your assessment is that Ron Paul is NOT really for civil liberties. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #41

I guess I disagree to some extent. Vattel Dec 2011 #56

OK, but he is not consistent which is the point I was making. And he is a bigot! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #66

I agree with that! Vattel Dec 2011 #73

His positions are a little more nuanced than that. Galle Dec 2011 #75

The "state issue" is a cop out. We don't let President Obama get away with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #102

Well... Galle Dec 2011 #107

Perhaps, but I still think that Ron Paul is being a bit disingenuous here, just as Obama is. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #110

Because they haven't seen this AlbertCat Dec 2011 #31

"I'll haunt your prostate!" progressoid Dec 2011 #46

Because (like my Mom) they don't know about the racism, KamaAina Dec 2011 #32

You forgot the "batshit crazy". n/t gkhouston Dec 2011 #84

When asked for a comment, a spokesperson for the local chapter of "Jews for Hitler" stated ... 11 Bravo Dec 2011 #33

Krugman: ProSense Dec 2011 #34

Thanks, ProSense! This should be the *COMPELLING* argument! The fact that his ideas are not only Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #43

There are a multitude of reasons to support Paul as the Republican Nominee Uncle Joe Dec 2011 #35

They are NOT liberals n/t librechik Dec 2011 #38

I agree. There's no way they're liberals. redqueen Dec 2011 #48

I think they (and I) agree with him on certain points (war, drugs, etc.) but aren't aware of his gateley Dec 2011 #39

NO LIBERAL would vote for Ron Paul. NONE. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #42

the point of OP is to put stink on the few good ideas Ron Paul has by setting up this straw man yurbud Dec 2011 #63

Wrong! I'm trying to understand the blatant contradiction in ideas. And I've already Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #68

are you sure you aren't confusing ''support'' with ''agree with him on some issues''? yurbud Dec 2011 #51

I can say Hitler had a way with khakis without supporting his anti-Semitism or wishing he won WWII. yurbud Dec 2011 #52

Maybe he's not serious but I could agree with this proposal by Paul Uncle Joe Dec 2011 #54

They are Progressive Libertarians that value liberalism over DNC values. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #53

Thanks! I made this point earlier. Love your signature pic, BTW! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #69

Do you realize that if we continue as we are going, we are ALL in jeopardy? George Glass Dec 2011 #55

A Libertarian sulphurdunn Dec 2011 #57

simple. they don't take the time to read his whole platform. Javaman Dec 2011 #59

It's not that you don't understand- it's that they dont Dragonbreathp9d Dec 2011 #60

WOW! That's an interesting take on this! Thanks!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #70

why not? mdmc Dec 2011 #61

But this is *DEMOCRATIC* Underground. Should we be supporting ANY Republican, especially one Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #71

One-issue-ism. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #62

Epidemic of temporary insanity? That's how I explain my Mother's current infatuation. REP Dec 2011 #65

Tunnel vision. gtar100 Dec 2011 #76

His brand of Libertarianism intersects w/progressivism. Also intersects with racism & whatever you DirkGently Dec 2011 #78

Yeah, let me explain it. napoleon_in_rags Dec 2011 #79

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #82

I just read that Obama has a 84% approval rating amongst liberals madokie Dec 2011 #83

Because of his attitude about WAR. Stevepol Dec 2011 #85

Ron Paul is like a doctor who can diagnose a disease correctly... MrScorpio Dec 2011 #87

I thought he was neutral on gay rights and abortion? mainer Dec 2011 #90

See my response, Post #102 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #103

I don't think it's that liberals support him. I think he just doesn't inspire disgust mainer Dec 2011 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author LaurenG Dec 2011 #92

Because he's only HALF crazy. PassingFair Dec 2011 #94

Are The Paul's Really Libertarians? DallasNE Dec 2011 #95

See my response, Post #16 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #104

A suggestion Bragi Dec 2011 #108

Thanks! I'll try that. :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #109

Support No, agree with him on some issues Yes Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #96

See my response upthread. I made this distinction earlier, and in my OP... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #105

Ron Paul is an Ugly Little Troll unionworks Dec 2011 #97

Do they? Laelth Dec 2011 #98

sirota has a soft spot for him, that's for sure dionysus Dec 2011 #119

I only support Paul thescreaminghead Dec 2011 #113

But he only holds this view because he hates government and regulation! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #115

yesterday, sirota was filling in for randi and spent most of the show kissing ron pauls ass. dionysus Dec 2011 #118

Still angry at Sirota for his shots at Melissa Harris Perry. At any rate, I podcast Randi every day, Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #120

Message deleted by the DU Administrators Plume Dec 2011 #121

Huh. Not buying it. He wants to repeal Roe v Wade. PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #123

So the 6th Ammendment doesn't matter to you? hyacinth house Dec 2011 #122

I'm asking a fairly straightforward question. Has nothing to do with me or my own views. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #125

You mean why some Ron Paul supporters call themselves liberal? Orsino Dec 2011 #124