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kelly1mm

(5,756 posts)

61. If someone (not this shooter in particular) says they are non-binary what basis does

Sun Nov 27, 2022, 06:29 PM

Nov 2022

anyone have to say no they are not? If someone states they are non-binary is it appropriate for their parents to dispute that? What about their employer? What about to random person on the street how says you cannot be non-binary if you have a beard (as is being argued in this thread)?

Who else but an individual gets to decide that individuals gender identity?

Is this not the generally accepted position among us progressives?

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So there's a lot of RW chatter about how the CO Springs Club Q shooter was non-binary..... [View all] pepperbear Nov 2022 OP

Has that been confirmed in any way? If that's still just that his lawyers are filing papers brewens Nov 2022 #1

I think some skepticism is necessary as none of the friends/family/colleagues that hlthe2b Nov 2022 #8

His lawyer making the non-binary claims may shield his client from hate crime charges RAB910 Nov 2022 #9

I have known kids who were kicked out of their homes if they were Gay...I have known Demsrule86 Nov 2022 #2

I wonder what would happen if someone shot up a big Christian megachurch? Maraya1969 Nov 2022 #3

The binary stuff seems like bs they just made up JI7 Nov 2022 #4

The shooter seems like he might be an incel, which doesn't qualify as non-binary. milestogo Nov 2022 #5

You hit the nail on the head yankee87 Nov 2022 #6

So.... that makes it ok that he killed them? Srkdqltr Nov 2022 #7

I think he is trolling the court Trenzalore Nov 2022 #10

Call his family and friends to the stand and ask them NickB79 Nov 2022 #11

The assumption that the killer is "self-loathing" is offensive and unhelpful. yardwork Nov 2022 #12

This - it's offensive and wrong FreeState Nov 2022 #14

It happens every single time. yardwork Nov 2022 #20

I said he was self loathing, not gay. pepperbear Nov 2022 #16

I have no idea if you're gay or not. yardwork Nov 2022 #19

Thank you. nt BlackSkimmer Nov 2022 #24

I was with you up until the last sentence. Ferrets are Cool Nov 2022 #13

I don't know what to tell you pepperbear Nov 2022 #17

pretty much all who do are, tho. mopinko Nov 2022 #22

I don't care. Iggo Nov 2022 #15

again, with all due respect, I think RW chatter affects the voting habits pepperbear Nov 2022 #18

And I think the people who spread bullshit should be loudly opposed and subsequently shunned. Iggo Nov 2022 #23

Exactly. yardwork Nov 2022 #28

This. BlackSkimmer Nov 2022 #25

It sure is, and we see it. yardwork Nov 2022 #29

It's nothing new when it comes to LGBTQI politics here FreeState Nov 2022 #32

Downthread, we're told we're hypocrites and bigots to question the defense assertion. yardwork Nov 2022 #43

its fucking irrelevant Voltaire2 Nov 2022 #21

He DID change his name at 16 because his Dad was on a recovery show. maxsolomon Nov 2022 #26

I believe they have called it a hate crime MichMan Nov 2022 #27

Life in federal prison vs. state prison. yardwork Nov 2022 #30

Once it is designated as a hate crime, the state hands over prosecution of the murderers to the DOJ? MichMan Nov 2022 #33

Yes, and it could be two separate trials. yardwork Nov 2022 #34

So would he serve once sentence after the other, or would they run concurrently? MichMan Nov 2022 #36

Depends on the sentencing decisions. yardwork Nov 2022 #37

That would only apply SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2022 #42

But is anyone allowed to question if someone is 'truly' non-binary or transgender? In kelly1mm Nov 2022 #31

Good question! I think we are allowed to question it in the case of a crime. yardwork Nov 2022 #35

I don't think misgendering someone is illegal in any state. That is different than being subject to kelly1mm Nov 2022 #38

I'm gay and I've never, ever heard that anybody has to accept a defense attorney's assertion. yardwork Nov 2022 #41

Lets take the defense attorney out of it. Lets assume the shooter states that they are non-binary kelly1mm Nov 2022 #44

I reject the "progressive position" framing. Context matters. yardwork Nov 2022 #47

If I am reading your comment correctly you are not necessarily disputing the shooters kelly1mm Nov 2022 #56

The individual's declaration was definitive? yardwork Nov 2022 #59

If someone (not this shooter in particular) says they are non-binary what basis does kelly1mm Nov 2022 #61

I'd like to point out that I have not said "the shooter is not non-binary" muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #64

So once the shooter does state it that will end the question for you, assuming they do? kelly1mm Nov 2022 #65

If they'd stated it *before* the murder, I'd accept it muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #66

Even with a beard? If so then what does the shooter not 'looking' non-binary by kelly1mm Nov 2022 #67

Because it was a decision to go for a binary look, from before the murders muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #69

I don't think that any outward physical characteristics or 'looks' should have any kelly1mm Nov 2022 #73

As discussed below, I don't think you understand what non-binary means. meadowlander Nov 2022 #76

Surprisingly some non-binary people don't feel safe saying it in a country where trans people are meadowlander Nov 2022 #75

Is anyone allowed to question if someone 'truly' hates heights or not? meadowlander Nov 2022 #58

There are posters right here on DU in this thread that dispute the shooter is non-binary kelly1mm Nov 2022 #63

I noticed he (they?) sports a beard muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #39

Are we allowed to question someones declaration of gender identity? I know at this kelly1mm Nov 2022 #45

But this is a look they chose muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #46

Perhaps I am not phrasing my question correctly. If someone states that they are non-binary kelly1mm Nov 2022 #50

I don't think "definitive" would be the right word muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #52

OK, fair enough. That does give wiggle room to bigots though to always question a persons kelly1mm Nov 2022 #54

What I'm saying is that choosing a binary look is not indicative of being non-binary muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #55

"Are we allowed?" What is your opinion? yardwork Nov 2022 #48

I use 'we' as in we progressives, and 'allowed' as in was it generally acceptable in progressive kelly1mm Nov 2022 #53

My opinion is that this game of gotcha is lame. /nt yardwork Nov 2022 #60

Ok thanks for adding to the discussion anyway. nt kelly1mm Nov 2022 #62

I didn't know non-binary people could not have facial hair. BlackSkimmer Nov 2022 #49

It's quite a binary choice muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #51

I'm far from an expert on these things Zeitghost Nov 2022 #68

"Feminine" dress would be relevant in contrast to a beard muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #71

Sometimes Zeitghost Nov 2022 #72

No Mad_Machine76 Nov 2022 #78

I'm non-binary. Having a beard has nothing to do with it. meadowlander Nov 2022 #57

I think non-binary is being confused for androgyny a bit here Sympthsical Nov 2022 #74

This talking point is so irrelevant. They are absolutely capable of committing a hate crime. gldstwmn Nov 2022 #40

Exactly Mad_Machine76 Nov 2022 #77

Now "We", meaning "the state" has to choose which gender applies ... JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2022 #70