General Discussion

Sympthsical

(11,017 posts)

74. I think non-binary is being confused for androgyny a bit here

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 27, 2022, 08:14 PM

Nov 2022

Non-binary doesn't mean splitting the difference between genders.

It simply means someone doesn't feel any particular affinity for one or the other. Facial hair is a biological function. I have a beard because, let's face it, I hate shaving. But it doesn't have anything really to do with my sense of maleness (and I am a very boringly typical cis male in identity and appearance).

You can have someone who appears very androgynous like Emma D'arcy. Then you have someone like Sam Smith who is always running around with at least heavy stubble.

People just pick and choose what feels comfortable for themselves as far as appearance (and upkeep - Smith is super hairy, and the stubble is probably just easier for them).

Long story short, non-binary is mostly how someone identifies internally. Externally, it'll vary a lot.

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So there's a lot of RW chatter about how the CO Springs Club Q shooter was non-binary..... [View all] pepperbear Nov 2022 OP

Has that been confirmed in any way? If that's still just that his lawyers are filing papers brewens Nov 2022 #1

I think some skepticism is necessary as none of the friends/family/colleagues that hlthe2b Nov 2022 #8

His lawyer making the non-binary claims may shield his client from hate crime charges RAB910 Nov 2022 #9

I have known kids who were kicked out of their homes if they were Gay...I have known Demsrule86 Nov 2022 #2

I wonder what would happen if someone shot up a big Christian megachurch? Maraya1969 Nov 2022 #3

The binary stuff seems like bs they just made up JI7 Nov 2022 #4

The shooter seems like he might be an incel, which doesn't qualify as non-binary. milestogo Nov 2022 #5

You hit the nail on the head yankee87 Nov 2022 #6

So.... that makes it ok that he killed them? Srkdqltr Nov 2022 #7

I think he is trolling the court Trenzalore Nov 2022 #10

Call his family and friends to the stand and ask them NickB79 Nov 2022 #11

The assumption that the killer is "self-loathing" is offensive and unhelpful. yardwork Nov 2022 #12

This - it's offensive and wrong FreeState Nov 2022 #14

It happens every single time. yardwork Nov 2022 #20

I said he was self loathing, not gay. pepperbear Nov 2022 #16

I have no idea if you're gay or not. yardwork Nov 2022 #19

Thank you. nt BlackSkimmer Nov 2022 #24

I was with you up until the last sentence. Ferrets are Cool Nov 2022 #13

I don't know what to tell you pepperbear Nov 2022 #17

pretty much all who do are, tho. mopinko Nov 2022 #22

I don't care. Iggo Nov 2022 #15

again, with all due respect, I think RW chatter affects the voting habits pepperbear Nov 2022 #18

And I think the people who spread bullshit should be loudly opposed and subsequently shunned. Iggo Nov 2022 #23

Exactly. yardwork Nov 2022 #28

This. BlackSkimmer Nov 2022 #25

It sure is, and we see it. yardwork Nov 2022 #29

It's nothing new when it comes to LGBTQI politics here FreeState Nov 2022 #32

Downthread, we're told we're hypocrites and bigots to question the defense assertion. yardwork Nov 2022 #43

its fucking irrelevant Voltaire2 Nov 2022 #21

He DID change his name at 16 because his Dad was on a recovery show. maxsolomon Nov 2022 #26

I believe they have called it a hate crime MichMan Nov 2022 #27

Life in federal prison vs. state prison. yardwork Nov 2022 #30

Once it is designated as a hate crime, the state hands over prosecution of the murderers to the DOJ? MichMan Nov 2022 #33

Yes, and it could be two separate trials. yardwork Nov 2022 #34

So would he serve once sentence after the other, or would they run concurrently? MichMan Nov 2022 #36

Depends on the sentencing decisions. yardwork Nov 2022 #37

That would only apply SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2022 #42

But is anyone allowed to question if someone is 'truly' non-binary or transgender? In kelly1mm Nov 2022 #31

Good question! I think we are allowed to question it in the case of a crime. yardwork Nov 2022 #35

I don't think misgendering someone is illegal in any state. That is different than being subject to kelly1mm Nov 2022 #38

I'm gay and I've never, ever heard that anybody has to accept a defense attorney's assertion. yardwork Nov 2022 #41

Lets take the defense attorney out of it. Lets assume the shooter states that they are non-binary kelly1mm Nov 2022 #44

I reject the "progressive position" framing. Context matters. yardwork Nov 2022 #47

If I am reading your comment correctly you are not necessarily disputing the shooters kelly1mm Nov 2022 #56

The individual's declaration was definitive? yardwork Nov 2022 #59

If someone (not this shooter in particular) says they are non-binary what basis does kelly1mm Nov 2022 #61

I'd like to point out that I have not said "the shooter is not non-binary" muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #64

So once the shooter does state it that will end the question for you, assuming they do? kelly1mm Nov 2022 #65

If they'd stated it *before* the murder, I'd accept it muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #66

Even with a beard? If so then what does the shooter not 'looking' non-binary by kelly1mm Nov 2022 #67

Because it was a decision to go for a binary look, from before the murders muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #69

I don't think that any outward physical characteristics or 'looks' should have any kelly1mm Nov 2022 #73

As discussed below, I don't think you understand what non-binary means. meadowlander Nov 2022 #76

Surprisingly some non-binary people don't feel safe saying it in a country where trans people are meadowlander Nov 2022 #75

Is anyone allowed to question if someone 'truly' hates heights or not? meadowlander Nov 2022 #58

There are posters right here on DU in this thread that dispute the shooter is non-binary kelly1mm Nov 2022 #63

I noticed he (they?) sports a beard muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #39

Are we allowed to question someones declaration of gender identity? I know at this kelly1mm Nov 2022 #45

But this is a look they chose muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #46

Perhaps I am not phrasing my question correctly. If someone states that they are non-binary kelly1mm Nov 2022 #50

I don't think "definitive" would be the right word muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #52

OK, fair enough. That does give wiggle room to bigots though to always question a persons kelly1mm Nov 2022 #54

What I'm saying is that choosing a binary look is not indicative of being non-binary muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #55

"Are we allowed?" What is your opinion? yardwork Nov 2022 #48

I use 'we' as in we progressives, and 'allowed' as in was it generally acceptable in progressive kelly1mm Nov 2022 #53

My opinion is that this game of gotcha is lame. /nt yardwork Nov 2022 #60

Ok thanks for adding to the discussion anyway. nt kelly1mm Nov 2022 #62

I didn't know non-binary people could not have facial hair. BlackSkimmer Nov 2022 #49

It's quite a binary choice muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #51

I'm far from an expert on these things Zeitghost Nov 2022 #68

"Feminine" dress would be relevant in contrast to a beard muriel_volestrangler Nov 2022 #71

Sometimes Zeitghost Nov 2022 #72

No Mad_Machine76 Nov 2022 #78

I'm non-binary. Having a beard has nothing to do with it. meadowlander Nov 2022 #57

I think non-binary is being confused for androgyny a bit here Sympthsical Nov 2022 #74

This talking point is so irrelevant. They are absolutely capable of committing a hate crime. gldstwmn Nov 2022 #40

Exactly Mad_Machine76 Nov 2022 #77

Now "We", meaning "the state" has to choose which gender applies ... JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2022 #70