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Ms. Toad

(38,731 posts)
17. First off - I agree that the system is broken - and disproportionately deprives
Sun Jan 1, 2023, 07:34 PM
Jan 2023

parents who are poor or minority of the right to parent their children.

But the analysis quoted is flawed.

The right to remain silent, have a jury trial, be presumed innocent, and to face their accuser are criminal concepts. These rights are specific to the potential for a criminal conviction. Child welfare cases are civil.

It is accurate to say that the right to due process isn't uniform across all legal matters. Parents do have a right to due process before they are deprived of their fundamental right to parent. That's the first step in a due process analysis. The second is to evaluate the what process is due - and what process is due isn't identical to the process due for a deprivation of liberty. As a general rule, there must be a fact-finding hearing - and proof by clear and convincing evidence of parental neglect (more than the typical civil matter - which only requires preponderance of the evidence).

The fact that due process rights associated with termination of parental rights are different from those associated with deprivation of liberty doesn't inherently mean the parent's constitutional rights don't apply. It is simply that there are express constitutional rights which apply in criminal matters that don't apply in matters of parental rights.

That doesn't mean that the system works well. It doesn't mean that being poor or non-white - as a practical matter - means you are more likely to have your parental rights terminated. It just means that the approach to solving this real problem isn't applying the criminal standards to parental termination isn't the answer.

We need better support systems for parents in need (child care, housing, health care, etc.). They need to be systems which parents whose rights are most likely to be abused are willing to use to provide care for their children - in other words they need to be designed with the input of those who may need the services. And our courts and police need extensive education as to what constitutes a real danger to children - rather than treating different cultural norms as inherently dangerous.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

For good reason - the life of a child or children marybourg Jan 2023 #1
I disagree. It's also not a calculation at all, but a legal gray area that is sorely under-studied WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2023 #2
Everything you say is true. marybourg Jan 2023 #3
Why? WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2023 #4
Because society in general has made that calculation; marybourg Jan 2023 #5
That doesn't answer why, and it's not a calculation that's been made; it's happened because of the WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2023 #6
Sorry, but if this is true then the Constitution is a dead letter printed on a roll of toilet paper localroger Jan 2023 #7
+1 leftstreet Jan 2023 #21
What's worse, they need only three accusers to act peppertree Jan 2023 #8
Years ago I remember that case where a baby died from SIDS or something like that Maraya1969 Jan 2023 #9
The welfare of the child is the responsibility of the state. LuvLoogie Jan 2023 #10
. WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2023 #11
Intangibles notwithstanding, there is a cost LuvLoogie Jan 2023 #12
Having been a foster parent, I feel many adults shouldn't be parents Kaleva Jan 2023 #13
That can be true while also acknowledging that parents shouldn't have their rights trampled. WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2023 #15
From my experience, parents are given many chances Kaleva Jan 2023 #18
Well... if it saves one child.... Fla_Democrat Jan 2023 #14
interesting...... Takket Jan 2023 #16
First off - I agree that the system is broken - and disproportionately deprives Ms. Toad Jan 2023 #17
Getting off drugs would help many parents Kaleva Jan 2023 #19
That doesn't address the disparity with which children are removed Ms. Toad Jan 2023 #23
The kids from rich families probably arent severely malnourished Kaleva Jan 2023 #24
The point isn't whehter individual poor/minority children Ms. Toad Jan 2023 #25
The rules are different for Native American children Kaleva Jan 2023 #26
The rules are different BECAUSE of the express program of removing native children Ms. Toad Jan 2023 #27
How often do you hear of a naked 3 year old girl found in a ditch Kaleva Jan 2023 #28
I don't know how it is in all states. shrike3 Jan 2023 #20
DURec leftstreet Jan 2023 #22
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