Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

General Discussion

Showing Original Post only (View all)

bigtree

(94,702 posts)
Thu Feb 2, 2023, 09:14 PM Feb 2023

Don't get so cynical about the DOJ that you miss important progress in investigations [View all]

...I posted at the end of last month about the convictions of the Oath Keepers on charges of sedition and other crimes committed surrounding the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

Jordan Fischer @JordanOnRecord
🚨 VERDICT: A jury has found Oath Keepers Roberto Minuta, Joseph Hackett, David Moerschel and Edward Vallejo GUILTY of seditious conspiracy, obstruction of an official proceeding and two other conspiracy counts. Hackett also convicted of tampering w/ evidence.

Jordan Fischer @JordanOnRecord 44m
After two Oath Keepers seditious conspiracy trials, here are the verdicts for all nine defendants on each charged count:




Four Oath Keepers found guilty of Jan. 6 seditious conspiracy

Four members of the far-right Oath Keepers group were convicted of seditious conspiracy Monday, joining founder Stewart Rhodes in being found guilty by a jury of plotting to keep President Donald Trump in power by force.

Seditious conspiracy charges are rarely used and even more rarely successful, making the verdict a significant victory for the Justice Department. Of the nearly 1,000 people charged with committing crimes at the Capitol on Jan. 6, only 14 were charged with seditious conspiracy, identified by the Justice Department as not just participants in a violent mob but leaders using brutality to further a political plot. In November, the same prosecution team failed to convict three associates of the Oath Keepers of the crime.

At Rhodes’s trial only he and Florida Oath Keepers leader Kelly Meggs were found guilty of conspiring to commit sedition, while three associates were convicted of less politically loaded felonies that did not require plans to use force. The Oath Keepers verdict — which came after the jury deliberated for about 13 hours — comes as five members of the Proud Boys face trial down the hall on seditious conspiracy charges.

(Oath keepers) Hackett and Moerschel traveled to D.C. from Florida with Meggs and followed him into the Capitol at 2:38 p.m. Minuta was in a separate Oath Keeper group providing security for Trump confidante Roger Stone that morning. Stone refused to leave his hotel because the Oath Keepers could not guarantee him access to the presidential stage, according to the testimony. When the riot started, Minuta and the others left Stone and rode hotel golf carts over to the Capitol.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/01/23/oathkeepers-verdict-seditious-conspiracy-jan6-guilty/
__________________________________

...and this morning, at the D.C. Federal Courthouse:

Daniel Barnes @dnlbrns 8h
Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, is currently appearing before a grand jury inside the DC federal courthouse. At least one prosecutor from special counsel Jack Smith's office is present.

Fitton not only told Trump publicly to stonewall DOJ on the Maralago documents, he's a prominent member of 'Groundswell,' which is basically made up of Jan. 6 insurrection organizers including, conservative activist and Supreme Court spouse Virginia (Ginni) Thomas, John Bolton, Frank Gaffney, Kenneth Blackwell, Judicial Watch's Tom Fitton, former Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), Max Pappas (an aide to Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas), The Washington Examiner's Mark Tapscott, and Breitbart News' Matthew Boyle, Mike Flynn, and Stephen Bannon.

Nicole Wallace brought this up today:




...not exactly the portrait of a retreating DOJ that critics seem so eager to convince.

DOJ has won 10 seditious conspiracy cases. In addition, five Proud Boys are on trial, in court right now. The judge in that Proud Boys trial ruled that he would allow prosecutors to use Trump’s ‘stand back and stand by’ comment in trial

read emptywheel:

Trump Worked with People Who Allegedly Worked with the Proud Boys to Obstruct the Peaceful Transfer of Power

As the Proud Boys trial gets underway, finally, prosecutors are beginning to show how the Proud Boys worked with people -- Alex Jones, Ali Alexander, and Roger Stone -- who in turn worked with Donald Trump in what ended up being a successful attempt to obstruct the certification of Donald Trump's loss.

By my count, at least 14 people are known to have pled guilty to some kind of conspiracy on January 6, with four more cooperating against them. Another four were found guilty of one or more conspiracy in November’s Oath Keeper verdict. Eighteen people, in one way or another have been convicted of conspiring to prevent the peaceful transfer of power on January 6, most by obstructing the vote certification.

Trump played a key part in all those conspiracies.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/01/17/trump-worked-with-people-who-worked-with-the-proud-boys-to-obstruct-the-peaceful-transfer-of-power/


...look to the grand juries, which aren't yet finished with wringing out every drop of evidence from an impressive number of Trump principals, and haven't reached any decision at all.

Don't listen to people who can't tell you about the actual state of the trial, what's publicly known. Don't rest your judgment of DOJ on cynics who can't be bothered to acknowledge the progress right in front of them.
86 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
TY Cha Feb 2023 #1
a lot of little very dumb fish, when do they start hauling in the smart larger ones or do they ? republianmushroom Feb 2023 #2
Try rereading the list of Judicial Watch members, who wnylib Feb 2023 #19
+1000! ShazzieB Feb 2023 #41
tell me which one has been indicted and arrested ? republianmushroom Feb 2023 #42
Tell me about your insights into how investigations are conducted wnylib Feb 2023 #55
That poster apparently refuses to read anything that contradicts their 'opinion.' emulatorloo Feb 2023 #72
Can you explain these, and why they have not been pursued ? republianmushroom Feb 2023 #75
No because at this point I believe you may not be acting in good faith. emulatorloo Feb 2023 #76
in other words you can. republianmushroom Feb 2023 #86
Yawn we can do it Feb 2023 #68
Yep. Believe that is the way the DoJ sees it too. republianmushroom Feb 2023 #69
Yawn we can do it Feb 2023 #70
Your routine is getting boring. emulatorloo Feb 2023 #71
Great OP malaise Feb 2023 #3
Good. Establishing in court that J6 was a seditious conspiracy Qutzupalotl Feb 2023 #4
EXACTLY. ShazzieB Feb 2023 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author Dum Aloo Feb 2023 #5
if you watched the Jan. 6 hearings, you'd know those 'small fish' are essential links to the WH bigtree Feb 2023 #8
+1000 wnylib Feb 2023 #20
Absolutely. ShazzieB Feb 2023 #45
Thank you. we can do it Feb 2023 #67
This! mcar Feb 2023 #74
This message was self-deleted by its author Dum Aloo Feb 2023 #83
Seditious conspiracy is not a "petty crime". Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2023 #10
that's correct bigtree Feb 2023 #15
18 U.S. Code § 2384 Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2023 #22
right, they're facing up to 20 years in federal prison bigtree Feb 2023 #24
And if Trump is charged -- which he will be -- Qutzupalotl Feb 2023 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Dum Aloo Feb 2023 #85
Just because so many of Nixon's people PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2023 #6
read again bigtree Feb 2023 #12
The Defense team can argue to a confused Jury that the prosecution team did not show direct evidence Justice matters. Feb 2023 #34
why? bigtree Feb 2023 #54
What inside knowledge do you have that Garland "will decline to bring charges?" emulatorloo Feb 2023 #77
Only speculation based on past facts (re: "Individual 1" case ignored beyond SoL expiration date) Justice matters. Feb 2023 #78
Sounds as if you may not know Garland's history as a prosecutor. emulatorloo Feb 2023 #81
Thanks for the article. Justice matters. Feb 2023 #84
It feels as if a vastly higher standard to indict is being held here. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2023 #51
the docs investigation has over a hundred files found at Trump's bigtree Feb 2023 #57
If these files were found in my house I'd be in jail within days. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2023 #65
That case, like the "Individual 1" case before it, will be stretched out beyond... Justice matters. Feb 2023 #60
Nixon and Trump - apples and oranges. wnylib Feb 2023 #21
So far he hasn't been indicted. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2023 #53
See my # 55. wnylib Feb 2023 #56
Thank you. sheshe2 Feb 2023 #7
The instigators are laughing in our faces behind their wall of useful idiots Ponietz Feb 2023 #9
Exactly. nt PufPuf23 Feb 2023 #16
no they're not bigtree Feb 2023 #18
Thanks for all this Bigtree Traildogbob Feb 2023 #26
Who said impervious? Ponietz Feb 2023 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Feb 2023 #30
Bait and switch Ponietz Feb 2023 #33
You're so right. ShazzieB Feb 2023 #50
Excellent OP. Important facts. Rest assured, your plea will be ignored. Beastly Boy Feb 2023 #11
I believe I'll get as cynical as I like as often as I like 48656c6c6f20 Feb 2023 #13
you do you bigtree Feb 2023 #14
Thank you. Better Days Ahoy Feb 2023 #44
+1000 ancianita Feb 2023 #52
Thanks for this comment. ShazzieB Feb 2023 #61
Analogy to football. A very important 1 yard was gained on first down. usonian Feb 2023 #17
that's not what the Jan. 6 committee took pains to show bigtree Feb 2023 #23
Agree. I just have my preferences. Take out the mobsters and the capo has no power. usonian Feb 2023 #35
zzzzzzz LiberalLovinLug Feb 2023 #25
not unexpected bigtree Feb 2023 #28
You don't seem to be very tolerant phoenix75 Feb 2023 #29
yeah, I'm not partial to ridiculing emojis, and arbitrary insults bigtree Feb 2023 #31
I'm impatient but practical BOSSHOG Feb 2023 #32
Post removed Post removed Feb 2023 #36
The facts are, as you relate, gab13by13 Feb 2023 #39
the first sentence is demonstratably wrong bigtree Feb 2023 #48
Opinions are great, but backing them up with the factual information to support them is even better! emulatorloo Feb 2023 #82
Thank you!! Joinfortmill Feb 2023 #37
K & R Good stuff! FakeNoose Feb 2023 #38
Great info! Thank you! We need to spread this across platforms. ancianita Feb 2023 #40
Many thanks for this!!!! ailsagirl Feb 2023 #46
Any of those edhopper Feb 2023 #47
..... ShazzieB Feb 2023 #64
Actually edhopper Feb 2023 #66
Thank you! WestMichRad Feb 2023 #49
LOL is this going to be a daily thing for you Sewa Feb 2023 #58
we had a new development today with the sighting of Fitton heading into the grand jury bigtree Feb 2023 #63
Recognizing progress achieved by the DOJ and others is important, so thank you for this. democrank Feb 2023 #62
Thanks for the post, really appreciate you putting it together. emulatorloo Feb 2023 #73
When you follow this stuff every day the waiting can be painful GreyE Feb 2023 #79
stellar first post bigtree Feb 2023 #80
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Don't get so cynical abou...