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Bucky

(55,334 posts)
188. When you treat a collection of individuals, even bad ones, like a collective, you miss the point
Fri Mar 3, 2023, 06:31 PM
Mar 2023

Each shooter, each misogynist, has a different pathology driving their violent or abusive impulses. A sweeping statement like "men lost control over women and so many of them turn into abusers" is close, but is not quite depicting the dynamic accurately. There are, after all, plenty of men who do have power over "their" women. Some of them turn into shooters as well. The mythology of the American mass shooter is that it's the victims of the times lashing out at the modern world. The reality has always been that most mass shooters (and most interpersonal abusers using other means) are successful bullies, successful abusers & controllers who are simply upping their game, taking the abuse to a new level.

Such men aren't lashing out at women cause they've "lost control" of them. There are as many different motivations and pathologies as there are outlashers. Many are lashing out because they feel entitled to, because there is ongoing social messaging that it's okay to abuse, that it's an expression of manliness that they have already tasted & practiced. "They kick dogs before they kick lovers," a detective who specialized in family violence cases once told me. So women standing up for themselves, society messaging that women should stand up for themselves, or women being "unruly" as you put it, isn't really the catalyst for domestic violence or domestic terrorism. It's the start of the cure for it.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Think I'm kidding? hippywife Mar 2023 #1
Whoa!!!! That's a stunner!!! Karadeniz Mar 2023 #12
Permission homegirl Mar 2023 #140
Not surprised. halfulglas Mar 2023 #19
One judge in my recollection said that of a 5 year old and slapped the offenders Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #29
A second good read is Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #117
Wait a sec, are you talking "Gender Studies" here? Ilsa Mar 2023 #119
It is fascinating to notice that even Indian population replacement rates... GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #123
I can remember when Mexico had a higher birth rate until Ilsa Mar 2023 #125
Interestingly, higher access to TV showing successful women seemed to reduce birthrates GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #131
I think that's the book hippywife Mar 2023 #135
There are also interesting reads on global demographics recently on the BBC GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #137
Ooooh! And my library has it through Hoopla! Thank you! Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #162
Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be a man. JanMichael Mar 2023 #129
I can suggest reading a book called Factfulness GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #132
You just did. Looked it up. Weak tea. JanMichael Mar 2023 #139
You have positively nailed it, my dear hippywife! CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2023 #2
I just downloaded it. MuseRider Mar 2023 #3
I can't imagine many things more scary... hippywife Mar 2023 #30
Yes, and this is just the tip of the iceberg of women's past tribulations, but.. Joinfortmill Mar 2023 #4
We have to keep fighting battles that we won years ago, it's exhausting Walleye Mar 2023 #7
Problem is... hippywife Mar 2023 #37
No actually we have had some victories but there so much further to go Walleye Mar 2023 #42
Battles have been won, with many victories... hippywife Mar 2023 #100
I really thought when Hillary lost the election that my whole life has been for nothing kind of Walleye Mar 2023 #102
Nah... hippywife Mar 2023 #108
Not old history at all, I remember most of it Walleye Mar 2023 #5
I listened to Limbaugh for a couple of years early '90s - listening to the enemy, so to speak. electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #60
Some women would give up the right to vote in order to elect Trump keithbvadu2 Mar 2023 #152
old ideas die hard treestar Mar 2023 #6
And that's the gist of my theory. hippywife Mar 2023 #10
Not to mention daughters treestar Mar 2023 #11
Other women who adhere to these ideas... hippywife Mar 2023 #13
Madeleine Albright's special place in hell Walleye Mar 2023 #43
Really?! Didn't know that! electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #71
She said something like there was a special place in hell Walleye Mar 2023 #76
Ah, then. That's a whole other (and much better) story. electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #153
Dr. Laura..3 hours of day of radio beat down of women while she runs million dollar business BlueWaveNeverEnd Mar 2023 #118
And too many rapists are given a slap on the wrist because somehow a woman invited the rape. Lonestarblue Mar 2023 #18
Heck! hippywife Mar 2023 #20
Well, shit, if there was a man like that in my life, he'd just have to calimary Mar 2023 #81
There's a website called "We Hunted the Mammoth"... Whatthe_Firetruck Mar 2023 #149
Whoah, who started those wars? treestar Mar 2023 #160
Well Said, Ma'am The Magistrate Mar 2023 #8
What a fucking great post, dudette! Glamrock Mar 2023 #9
Not funny: Bang Zoom ...You're Going to the Moon! cbabe Mar 2023 #14
I was a kid watching at times, and I Hated that! electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #63
I always hated that program and could not stand Gleason. wnylib Mar 2023 #97
And when you graduated high school in 1976, women had a Constitutional right to abortion! Sky Jewels Mar 2023 #15
Nailed it. colorado_ufo Mar 2023 #16
Oh, about 25 years ago or so... hippywife Mar 2023 #21
This made my day! colorado_ufo Mar 2023 #121
Made mine when I heard about it, too. LOL nt hippywife Mar 2023 #134
Do youmg men today have any idea how to be husbands? leftyladyfrommo Mar 2023 #17
That depends on the other men in their lives, I would suppose. hippywife Mar 2023 #24
Men today Elessar Zappa Mar 2023 #40
I actually think you are right on this, just look at our wonderful president Walleye Mar 2023 #46
While that's true in some cases... hippywife Mar 2023 #62
Not surprising to me is that I think of today's husbands, the best of them halfulglas Mar 2023 #104
my grandmother did treestar Mar 2023 #126
And unfortunately a few of them are on our Supreme Court momta Mar 2023 #22
Most of the men in seats of power in the government... hippywife Mar 2023 #25
The patriarchy has always demanded to start their lives ahead of half the population. lindysalsagal Mar 2023 #23
Great summation HW DENVERPOPS Mar 2023 #26
You nailed it! SheltieLover Mar 2023 #27
I think anomie is a better explanation, personally. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2023 #28
That ALMOST gives them an excuse... hippywife Mar 2023 #33
Agree that it does sound almost like an excuse, wnylib Mar 2023 #115
I had to look that up. Anomie, I learned, is the deterioration of standards and values Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #34
Respectfully Disagree. Caliman73 Mar 2023 #83
I would clarify a few things: Act_of_Reparation Mar 2023 #94
Great post! Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #31
Wow mainer Mar 2023 #32
I have noticed that males are referred to young men in their teens. Delmette2.0 Mar 2023 #35
We're still continually being... hippywife Mar 2023 #38
It shows up in small ways like shaving pubic hair sanatanadharma Mar 2023 #82
I think we've failed in that hippywife Mar 2023 #85
Demographics is an interesting industry GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #120
Unless it is a trial for the rape of a child, in which case the child is often referred to as Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #39
OMG I have heard or read that one. Delmette2.0 Mar 2023 #50
Words. hippywife Mar 2023 #74
That's a pet peeve of mine. I'll call people on it. raccoon Mar 2023 #54
.... Delmette2.0 Mar 2023 #65
I HATE it when people say "young girl" and I assume they're talking about a 12/13 year old betsuni Mar 2023 #185
It's like they can't say the word woman. Delmette2.0 Mar 2023 #187
Amen, sister wryter2000 Mar 2023 #36
On the other hand.... NJCher Mar 2023 #41
I still see that attitude as part of the problem. hippywife Mar 2023 #45
that's not at all what he meant NJCher Mar 2023 #59
That's what I thought you meant electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #66
Granted I don't know your friend, and it's great that's what he wanted... hippywife Mar 2023 #67
I get what you mean by word choice. Who knows. electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #70
not at all NJCher Mar 2023 #78
Still, sort of smacks of misogyny. hippywife Mar 2023 #80
under certain conditions NJCher Mar 2023 #88
The whole... hippywife Mar 2023 #91
heh NJCher Mar 2023 #98
Sadly, that whole fairy tale is just so ingrained... hippywife Mar 2023 #99
There's a great play about Elizabeth Packard, "Mrs. Packard" (link below) johnnyplankton Mar 2023 #44
Many years ago it was very easy to commit ANYONE if you really wanted to do it. oldsoftie Mar 2023 #47
That may be true... hippywife Mar 2023 #48
" Hysterical" Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #61
Yup, and it hasn't gone away. nt hippywife Mar 2023 #68
Your excellent post gave me goose bumps. I have heard these loving husband quotes: txwhitedove Mar 2023 #49
The entire system is still set up to disadvantage women. hippywife Mar 2023 #51
Interestingly... GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #180
My wife's great grandmother was committed in the 1890s CanonRay Mar 2023 #52
I'm so sorry. hippywife Mar 2023 #57
THIS. And the stuff still allowed/not allowed till the mid '70?!!!.... electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #53
When I was growing up... hippywife Mar 2023 #55
Yikes! I'm so sorry to hear that...how horrific!.. electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #75
There really are. hippywife Mar 2023 #79
Hmmm... because they're indoctrinated enough not want more/certain people to be free? electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #155
So my dad ... electric_blue68 Mar 2023 #156
In a patriarchal culture, women are an advanced kind of livestock. TygrBright Mar 2023 #56
Moooooooo Hekate Mar 2023 #84
What so many people forget is that women have the most important job in the world GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #181
Anyone notice how angry young white men are these days?? Jon King Mar 2023 #58
True words! Hope22 Mar 2023 #64
This - hippywife Mar 2023 #77
I live with two grown white men... Hope22 Mar 2023 #87
That stupid fking Buybull story about the talking snake and blaming a woman of all of life's ills OMGWTF Mar 2023 #69
Absolutely! hippywife Mar 2023 #72
That whole stupid book is poison... Sky Jewels Mar 2023 #158
Wow. Thank you for this ismnotwasm Mar 2023 #73
🌺 Hekate Mar 2023 #86
Is that the source of toxic masculinity, or just one ugly manifestation of it? Silent3 Mar 2023 #89
It's the not a chicken and egg thing. hippywife Mar 2023 #92
I believe more men are killed by men than women are killed by men Silent3 Mar 2023 #93
More men are killed by men than kill women. hippywife Mar 2023 #96
Embedded in our systems, or our biology? Silent3 Mar 2023 #107
I have serious doubts about attributing it to biology. hippywife Mar 2023 #109
If not biology, what would cause patriarchy to be so widespread? Silent3 Mar 2023 #110
I already addressed that in the post you're responding to. hippywife Mar 2023 #112
I don't see what it is in your post that would address that point Silent3 Mar 2023 #114
There have been very few matriarchies, but wnylib Mar 2023 #124
Sorry for the delay, making dinner. hippywife Mar 2023 #128
Patriarchal societies predated monotheist religion. shrike3 Mar 2023 #148
I blame the Victorians, mostly chowmama Mar 2023 #150
I think religion is the simplest explanation malaise Mar 2023 #130
But why would patriarchy be common to so many religions? Silent3 Mar 2023 #141
You may be right malaise Mar 2023 #142
maybe because those religions were designed to keep the patriarchical order LymphocyteLover Mar 2023 #168
That's just going in circles... Silent3 Mar 2023 #172
Sure, as I posted elsewhere in this thread, males are biologically stronger on average and that set LymphocyteLover Mar 2023 #173
Indigenous tribes had nothing that even closely resembled religion but were still patriarchal shrike3 Mar 2023 #145
not all indigenous tribes though LymphocyteLover Mar 2023 #170
Certainly, not all. shrike3 Mar 2023 #174
Agreed. It's sort of a endless struggle -- it's much easier for men to reproduce and so they will LymphocyteLover Mar 2023 #175
Yes. And unfortunately, we seem to be going backward on this matter rather than forward. shrike3 Mar 2023 #177
certainly the more fair and democratic a society is, the better for women and it's a big part of LymphocyteLover Mar 2023 #178
Yes, obviously. shrike3 Mar 2023 #179
I think the male's desire to perpetuate his own genes plays a part. shrike3 Mar 2023 #147
Here's another eye-opener: in2herbs Mar 2023 #90
I saw that book hippywife Mar 2023 #95
it's all about passing on that dna. all males know it might not be their kid. this is the root. mopinko Mar 2023 #101
I'm sure that has been a factor... hippywife Mar 2023 #103
well, and the other part is mopinko Mar 2023 #106
We have and still do strip the feminine from boys. hippywife Mar 2023 #116
Truth Ohio Joe Mar 2023 #105
Imprisoned for immorality book: Evidence of V cbabe Mar 2023 #111
I've not read that book... hippywife Mar 2023 #113
Great post malaise Mar 2023 #122
Misogyny runs much deeper in America than most people realize dlk Mar 2023 #127
As a woman who became a feminist as a teenager in the 60's... llmart Mar 2023 #133
And I think this part is very intentional: hippywife Mar 2023 #136
On balance, women are smarter than men GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #182
I've always felt that to be true. llmart Mar 2023 #186
Thank you for this absolutely EXCELLENT post! Wild blueberry Mar 2023 #138
Think about this.. The Jungle 1 Mar 2023 #143
Oh, yeah. Fun times. chowmama Mar 2023 #144
Many thanks GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #183
You're right, the details could go on. And on. But the big memory was just how weird it all was. chowmama Mar 2023 #189
Many thanks for this GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #190
I'm still waiting to find out what the "source of masculine toxicity" is. Martin68 Mar 2023 #146
**** soldierant Mar 2023 #151
Most genuinely happy men I know are in this situation GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #184
Great post Lithos Mar 2023 #154
You're preaching to the choir BigmanPigman Mar 2023 #157
I can only list some bullet points . love_katz Mar 2023 #159
They don't think women are human like them. More like animals. betsuni Mar 2023 #161
Oh, wow! This is such a great old-time DU thread! So informative, Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #163
My father was like that. no_hypocrisy Mar 2023 #164
Wow! hippywife Mar 2023 #166
I wasn't paranoid-- He wanted to no_hypocrisy Mar 2023 #167
Backlash by Susan Faludi Marthe48 Mar 2023 #165
absolutely-- which is why so many women are not getting married these days LymphocyteLover Mar 2023 #171
as a male, I hate this common male attitude, and I wish this wasn't an issue. LymphocyteLover Mar 2023 #169
We all get role modelling signals Marthe48 Mar 2023 #176
When you treat a collection of individuals, even bad ones, like a collective, you miss the point Bucky Mar 2023 #188
Another truly fascinating subject is the shrinking of the modern human brain GeoWilliam750 Mar 2023 #191
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