General Discussion

drmeow

(5,992 posts)

66. This is exactly why

Mon Jan 16, 2012, 08:53 PM

Jan 2012

I tend to avoid using "guys." I don't get bent out of shape by people using it (although I notice it) but I avoid using it myself. Except in a greeting (i.e., Hey guys), guys used in a 'gender neutral' context tends to be used as filler - are you guys ready for the check can just as easily said as are you ready for the check (or, if one is really concerned about the singular/plural clarity - are you all ready for the check).

If guys really was gender neutral I would have no problem using it but it is not gender neutral. These phrases do not tend to elicit mixed gender visions: I was out with the guys, there are a bunch of guys hanging out, etc. I prefer not to encourage or perpetuate the male as normative/male as default (which is what this is) in our culture.

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Gender trope discussion from last night [View all] lapislzi Jan 2012 OP

Except in the South, "guys" is gender-neutral obamanut2012 Jan 2012 #1

I won't insult you then by i_sometimes Jan 2012 #2

"Gal" sounds flippant and dismissive lapislzi Jan 2012 #5

"Gal" sounds flippant and dismissive to YOU theAntiRand Jan 2012 #25

To open up a discussion lapislzi Jan 2012 #43

Why not refer to her as his agent? How is gender relevant? SharonAnn Jan 2012 #48

+1 treestar Jan 2012 #55

Exactly, and also obamanut2012 Jan 2012 #50

Your opinion =/= reality. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #69

I wonder if context matters Bragi Jan 2012 #93

Depends on context for me. eridani Jan 2012 #96

How is objecting to "gal" being over-sensitive? obamanut2012 Jan 2012 #46

AMEN Remember Me Jan 2012 #74

How is Gal Friday dismissive? EOTE Jan 2012 #98

Gee, I always thought "Gal Friday" was ....... oldhippie Jan 2012 #111

'Gal' doesn't bother me at all babylonsister Jan 2012 #3

"What should I call her?" what is telling is he truly was stumped on what he was suppose to say. seabeyond Jan 2012 #4

It sure has lapislzi Jan 2012 #7

"woman" is sometimes too formal Enrique Jan 2012 #13

sometimes. but i dont think it is the cruxs of the issue. i have found seabeyond Jan 2012 #17

No, it's about formal-distant vs. informal-friendly speech. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #70

then why do people have such a tough time using woman to a perfect stranger as in seabeyond Jan 2012 #75

The use of "lady" is a term of respect and deference reserved for older women, in my experience. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #83

I don't buy that Remember Me Jan 2012 #76

Maybe this notion of women being girls that never grow undergroundpanther Jan 2012 #89

I think it's interesting that if a group includes even one male Morning Dew Jan 2012 #6

I've been with a group of women and been referred to as "guys," lapislzi Jan 2012 #8

Exactly. And I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with it. Morning Dew Jan 2012 #11

This is exactly why drmeow Jan 2012 #66

Excellent point Remember Me Jan 2012 #77

To some younger women, "dude" is gender neutral Orangepeel Jan 2012 #94

That's a good point! obamanut2012 Jan 2012 #51

I refer to a group of women as "guys", too. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #71

I understand it as an old timey thing. VioletLake Jan 2012 #9

Oh, I wasn't trying to pick on him. lapislzi Jan 2012 #12

Good point. VioletLake Jan 2012 #22

It is an interpersonal power play AngryAmish Jan 2012 #10

I'm a Gen X wild 'girl' JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #14

"Folks" is bothersome? JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #49

It just irritates me JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #63

What's wrong with "y'all"? obamanut2012 Jan 2012 #53

Yes, it has a place as a plural form of "you" treestar Jan 2012 #56

I thought "y'all" was the singular form JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #64

More like the difference between a couple and a bunch... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #91

Same as above JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #65

no kidding. RIT graduated DUer here. dionysus Jan 2012 #108

In the Midwest the plural of "you" is "ya-guys" Odin2005 Jan 2012 #72

Honestly? 99Forever Jan 2012 #15

If you had read my post more carefully lapislzi Jan 2012 #19

If you weren't "looking to start a fight".. 99Forever Jan 2012 #27

It's not acceptable to me. lapislzi Jan 2012 #28

But it's ok... 99Forever Jan 2012 #31

I neither trivialized nor marginalized your opinion lapislzi Jan 2012 #38

You haven't raised an issue of bias. Lance_Boyle Jan 2012 #101

This is quite an impressive post Remember Me Jan 2012 #78

Guy has been traditionally used for men. MineralMan Jan 2012 #16

Thank you for your reasoned response. lapislzi Jan 2012 #20

It sounds like a good discussion for a writers' group. MineralMan Jan 2012 #24

Sometimes the seed planted sprouts -- Remember Me Jan 2012 #79

I think you may have stumbled on a generational, or perhaps regional, difference ... surrealAmerican Jan 2012 #18

There was no acrimony lapislzi Jan 2012 #21

I'm fine with the word "gal"... ljm2002 Jan 2012 #23

+1 cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #26

"talking gender neutral blues" niyad Jan 2012 #29

Your friend would have had every right and reason to be offended by your behavior cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #30

so, a person cannot discuss an issue or thought, regardless of how respectfully they do it seabeyond Jan 2012 #33

Of course. I ladied it over him for the rest of the evening. lapislzi Jan 2012 #39

"I ladied it over him for the rest of the evening." A-Schwarzenegger Jan 2012 #87

Use of the word gal doesn't offend me but it Raven Jan 2012 #32

"Gal" is perfectly acceptable in every social circle I'm aware of except among... NYC_SKP Jan 2012 #34

Easy, chief. VioletLake Jan 2012 #36

HAHAHAHA! Perfect! NYC_SKP Jan 2012 #58

Yikes. lapislzi Jan 2012 #41

Harmless in most circles, was the point I wanted to make. There are 100s of examples: NYC_SKP Jan 2012 #59

from the early days of the third wave of the feminist movement, we learned that words are so very niyad Jan 2012 #35

I agree, but worse yet to my mind Remember Me Jan 2012 #80

having been involved in any number of these discussions here over the years, I agree with you niyad Jan 2012 #84

It bothers some and not others... JSnuffy Jan 2012 #92

Guys is only gender-neutral in the plural Capitalocracy Jan 2012 #37

USED to be used in English?? Remember Me Jan 2012 #81

Rude much? Capitalocracy Jan 2012 #99

ReallY? Remember Me Jan 2012 #112

Please let me say once again lapislzi Jan 2012 #40

we understand you were not offended. but how else to catagorize hysterical, over sensitive seabeyond Jan 2012 #44

Precisely, seabeyond lapislzi Jan 2012 #47

i have found, and very thrilled i have, people who believe womens place is to sit and shut up seabeyond Jan 2012 #52

I call everyone "Human", "Earthling" or "Carbon-Based Lifeform" WonderGrunion Jan 2012 #42

I tried that. lapislzi Jan 2012 #45

I don't mind being referred to as a "boy" ... dawg Jan 2012 #54

LOL, I'm 25 and people over 50 tend to call me "kid" or "son". Odin2005 Jan 2012 #73

Why not go on the offensive and Remember Me Jan 2012 #82

Because I think "girl" and "boy" are perfectly acceptable in some situations. dawg Jan 2012 #97

I'm 48 - BWAAAHAAAHAAHAA! HopeHoops Jan 2012 #57

being older than dirt, I can tell you that NONE of my friends use "girls", and NONE of us use the niyad Jan 2012 #85

Right - my bad - but "dolls" is even worse. The term "girlfriend" is common around here. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #90

I'm female, 59 years old. emcguffie Jan 2012 #60

I've been a writer for a long time hifiguy Jan 2012 #61

Interesting discussion blaze Jan 2012 #62

The etymology of "gal" justiceischeap Jan 2012 #67

Agreed, context is everything lapislzi Jan 2012 #100

OFFS, there is nothing wrong with "gal". Odin2005 Jan 2012 #68

I don't understand how "gal" is insulting or demeaning if it's used in casual conversation. Quantess Jan 2012 #86

Me thinks you are correct...mankind must think in terms of Whats Best before making decisions opihimoimoi Jan 2012 #88

Once again, my hat is off to thoughtful DUers lapislzi Jan 2012 #95

I remember this being discussed on DU2 Lars39 Jan 2012 #102

At least one DUer uses 'gal' as part of her screen name. Bluenorthwest Jan 2012 #103

Hearing a man refer to women as "females" in the office instead of Ilsa Jan 2012 #104

Your preferred word "woman" actually means "not man." 6000eliot Jan 2012 #105

I can't fix the dictionary lapislzi Jan 2012 #106

Refer to people as they prefer. However... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #107

Equally Stupid are the words "girl" friend or "boy friend" dynasaw Jan 2012 #109

I think you are way too oversensitive to this ..... oldhippie Jan 2012 #110