General Discussion

Silent3

(15,909 posts)

69. I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, using language to increase feelings of inclusion...

Thu Mar 23, 2023, 07:38 PM

Mar 2023

...is a noble thing.

On the other hand, it can be overdone to the point it simply grates against natural language use.

Like replacing "blind" with "visually impaired". And then deciding that this isn't good enough, because it "doesn't put people first, but rather identifies people by their disabilities".

So how do you "fix" that? "People living with visual impairment".

Sorry, no thanks. I'll stick with "blind", or, if degree of visual impairment needs to be considered, "visually impaired".

"People living with visual impairment" is just fucking ridiculous, especially if that phraseology is treated not merely as an optional way of referring to blind people, but the ONLY way to express the concept, otherwise you're somehow an insensitive troglodyte who must be shamed and punished.

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Ana Kasparian's "I'm a woman" Tweet [View all] JI7 Mar 2023 OP

I'm disappointed in her Mad_Machine76 Mar 2023 #1

It isn't inclusive, though. 'Women and other pregnant persons' is inclusive. You want to exclude hlthe2b Mar 2023 #3

"Women and other pregnant persons" implies that all women are pregnant. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #27

"Pregnant women" refers to women who are pregnant. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #28

As I've already replied... ignore hlthe2b Mar 2023 #29

Claiming that the term "pregnant people" is not inclusive makes no sense whatsoever. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #32

Your understanding of what "inclusive" means seems to be different from that of most people here. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #38

I'm not trying to diminish ANYONE. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #43

It's never a good idea to use logic to dismiss other peoples' feelings Bucky Mar 2023 #115

That's a matter of opinion. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #131

Not everybody who is pregnant identifies as a woman. yardwork Mar 2023 #109

"doesn't hurt anybody to use inclusive terms" Sorry, but it does Bucky Mar 2023 #116

The only place these phrases are being used is in the context of specific medical care. yardwork Mar 2023 #120

Again, I have to disagree Bucky Mar 2023 #124

This is a right wing trick designed to make people dislike Joe Biden. yardwork Mar 2023 #126

I believe their agenda is quite a bit broader than that Bucky Mar 2023 #127

Why can't she decide what she wants to be called? Dr. Strange Mar 2023 #8

She can be called personally whatever she wants and I would of course respect that Mad_Machine76 Mar 2023 #9

well, I think we should and can be inclusive without ignoring that pregnancy is overwhelmingly an hlthe2b Mar 2023 #2

This is quite illogical. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #34

Please do not put words in my mouth. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #40

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #41

You can think whatever you want. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #58

Wow, you really have a unique and imaginative way of putting words in people's mouths! 😂 ShazzieB Mar 2023 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #70

I haven't attacked ANYONE for ANYTHING. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #100

Thank you for standing up for the truth. LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #81

Thank you. You have said this better than I. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #44

Except no one is trying to decide anything like that obamanut2012 Mar 2023 #141

The term is transgender, not transgendered. yardwork Mar 2023 #110

All the TYT people are trolls. dawg Mar 2023 #4

So so true. nt MrsCoffee Mar 2023 #89

In my opinion, Ana was a true believer of hateful anti-Democratic conspiracy theories/propaganda betsuni Mar 2023 #94

Never really thought too much about this but I think this is correct JI7 Mar 2023 #136

"I'm shocked by that result": Cenk on his TYT audience polling, 80% would not vote for Hillary. betsuni Mar 2023 #137

I'd never heard of her before, but that explains a lot. yardwork Mar 2023 #111

Learned a new term, TERF, trans-exclusionary radical feminist oregonjen Mar 2023 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #6

I don't know about that oregonjen Mar 2023 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #10

Wow, you're snarky. No, it's about people not being inclusive. JK Rowling was just an example that oregonjen Mar 2023 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #12

how is the term that describes a subset DonCoquixote Mar 2023 #14

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #15

snark does not communicate your point well DonCoquixote Mar 2023 #16

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #18

asking for you to explain your logic DonCoquixote Mar 2023 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #20

It is relatively new but not a "nasty new acronym" Caliman73 Mar 2023 #30

Thanks for this, especially the links. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #35

I think assigned male comics showed this very well LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #76

Please show me where Rowling said she "hates" trans folk? BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #45

here ya go DonCoquixote Mar 2023 #79

Don't expect a response... Violet_Crumble Mar 2023 #105

I have read Rowling's comments. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #25

She 'spews' indirect bigotry against trans people.... Violet_Crumble Mar 2023 #39

My Millennial kids feel the same way about JK Rowling. yardwork Mar 2023 #112

. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #21

Thank you. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #24

TERFs are bad feminists - especially the ones who ally with the far / Christian right. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #42

I find it difficult to believe that Rowling supports a far-right Christian organization. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #46

Oh yes. She very much does. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #47

Well, I'll have to research that. I will do so, and thanks for the info. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #50

Why can't it be discussed? Violet_Crumble Mar 2023 #54

EarlG put his foot down on advocacy of discrimination against trans individuals. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #95

Yes. Well said again. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #96

JFC just stop obamanut2012 Mar 2023 #143

we know who does support people DonCoquixote Mar 2023 #99

Seiously, many of teh non-hidden posts in thsi thraed are as bad obamanut2012 Mar 2023 #142

Actually, there are a number of problematic issues in her books. yardwork Mar 2023 #114

I've encountered a few on Twitter yesterday... Violet_Crumble Mar 2023 #53

I appreciate your post, Violet_Crumble and it is good to see you. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #62

It's good to see you too, old friend.... Violet_Crumble Mar 2023 #106

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #144

I'm just ForgedCrank Mar 2023 #65

Yup... hlthe2b Mar 2023 #71

One of the hallmarks of a lot of TERFs LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #51

Thanks for this link. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #63

Actually some people revel in the term TERF Bucky Mar 2023 #121

Anyone who identifies themselves as exclusionary of anyone else... Bucky Mar 2023 #117

This has to be about the Biden administration using "birthing people." betsuni Mar 2023 #13

I'm glad you've pinpointed that this has nothing to do with discrimination against transpeople... Violet_Crumble Mar 2023 #104

I know Kasparian, why I say it's about Biden admin. documents referring to "birthing persons." betsuni Mar 2023 #107

I agree with you. yardwork Mar 2023 #128

+1 betsuni Mar 2023 #138

All of those should only be used in a situation where the qualifier is relevant muriel_volestrangler Mar 2023 #17

+1 Celerity Mar 2023 #23

Agreed 100%! ShazzieB Mar 2023 #36

In the absence of a reasonable example, I'm assuming she's just trying to cause trouble. yardwork Mar 2023 #129

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #22

Paradoxically, terms like "person with a uterus" and "people who menstruate" are more "inclusive" in WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #48

It is removing the ability of the majority of those who can become pregnant to be referred to as hlthe2b Mar 2023 #56

Again, THANK YOU. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #59

. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #64

I'm with you. I also see the argument that's it's necessary to include trans men. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #66

Not to argue against the inclusive language, but I'd give trans men the benefit of the doubt... Silent3 Mar 2023 #72

+1 leftstreet Mar 2023 #75

Also? WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #49

I agree that it's cringe, but, where have these terms been used? Oneironaut Mar 2023 #52

It's neither cringe nor bone-headed. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #55

Hard agree. ShazzieB Mar 2023 #102

Yes. Ana and others are taking this out of context to fear-monger. yardwork Mar 2023 #119

Yep. It's working right in this thread. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #122

It's the third such thread I've seen on DU in recent days. yardwork Mar 2023 #125

Many posts not hidden, too, even though they are supporting TERFs obamanut2012 Mar 2023 #145

Ana Kasparian's ForgedCrank Mar 2023 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author Silent3 Mar 2023 #68

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, using language to increase feelings of inclusion... Silent3 Mar 2023 #69

This is a great post. Thank you! lanlady Mar 2023 #73

You said it better than I can Bucky Mar 2023 #118

Thank you. I really got rubbed over someone telling me that Ilsa Mar 2023 #133

I was in a training once where we had to list what our pronouns were and how we identified ourselves Evergreen Emerald Mar 2023 #134

I do not believe this actually happened LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #139

It actually did happen Evergreen Emerald Mar 2023 #140

When we can call cis men people without a uterus, non birthing person and person who does not boston bean Mar 2023 #74

+1 JustAnotherGen Mar 2023 #77

The correct analogy would be 'people with prostrate issues'. Voltaire2 Mar 2023 #135

My take ecstatic Mar 2023 #78

She fell for the right wing narrative, as to trans individuals - as have a number of people on DU Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #86

No one is telling her she can't identify as a woman. Period. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #93

Agreed. This is the latest right wing manufactured outrage. yardwork Mar 2023 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #87

Not at all. People who are reframing general gender-neutral statements about people whose anatomy Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #92

Where? AZSkiffyGeek Mar 2023 #101

She is being disingenuous LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #82

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #88

Also this is a great response: LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #83

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #84

This is great! ShazzieB Mar 2023 #103

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #97

I see an analogy to Black Lives Matter here. Croney Mar 2023 #98

She's way off base. Those terms are used in medical settings. yardwork Mar 2023 #108

Renaming people groups is an exercise in futility. It minimizes their struggles Bucky Mar 2023 #113

Nobody is trying to rename women. yardwork Mar 2023 #123

What's terrific about this issue is it brings people together. BannonsLiver Mar 2023 #132