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JohnSJ

(98,883 posts)

39. The fact that high level people in the Sanders campaign, Sirota, Turner, West, Gray, etc. wouldn't

Tue Mar 28, 2023, 10:07 AM

Mar 2023

vote for the Democratic nominee set a terrible example, along with according to NPR, 1 in 10 Sanders’ supporters voted for trump, it isn’t surprising that we lost.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

Which in my view argues against the OP’s view that if the hush money payoffs were on the front burner, “trump probably would have lost”, because of independents. I suspect any independent willing to vote for trump would have still voted for him regardless of being aware of hush money payoffs or not.

Also, using your argument, the OP’s reasoning doesn’t seem to hold either. That is they wouldn’t vote for the Democratic nominee regardless.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

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Bottom line, would HRC have lost the 2016 election in [View all] Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2023 OP

Maybe, but probably not jmowreader Mar 2023 #1

In every critical swing state Hillary lost by less than 1%, while in those same critical swing JohnSJ Mar 2023 #2

Yes. But isn't a certain anti-candidate contingency always Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2023 #5

Yes, the Stein vote as the cause is fundamentally flawed as it takes 100% of all Celerity Mar 2023 #11

That's a lot of gyrations to debunk what everyone knows to be true. W_HAMILTON Mar 2023 #13

+1 betsuni Mar 2023 #14

Its not gyrations, it is all documented and uses basic, simple maths Celerity Mar 2023 #15

You leave out all who were urged to stay home and who failed to vote. Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #18

Non sequitur. I was only discussing 3rd party voters. You are now introducing things further afield. Celerity Mar 2023 #20

Malarky Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #22

+1 betsuni Mar 2023 #24

no, if we are only discussing Stein (as that is what I was addressing, as so many say Stein ALONE Celerity Mar 2023 #40

Everyone is more than aware that it was not Jill Stein alone that sunk Hillary Clinton. Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #41

Good Lord inthewind21 Mar 2023 #44

the vast majority of my posts are not that long, but on a major subject like this I try to Celerity Mar 2023 #45

And yet the effort is entirely unpersuasive. Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #47

+1 betsuni Mar 2023 #21

The fact that high level people in the Sanders campaign, Sirota, Turner, West, Gray, etc. wouldn't JohnSJ Mar 2023 #39

In total agreement with the first half. But votes would have/could have come from the center Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #49

The fact that Trump didn't hide his bigotry, sexism, etc, makes me think adding this affair to the JohnSJ Mar 2023 #54

We have different thoughts about that. Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #56

ok. JohnSJ Mar 2023 #62

They would have voted for the Democratic nominee if not for all the ratfucking I mentioned. W_HAMILTON Mar 2023 #65

+2 Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #17

So...you are thinking that 3rd party voters had absolutely no effect on Hillary's loss? ismnotwasm Mar 2023 #37

It is what's called "reframing" by some. Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #50

You know it. Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #16

Fantasy Movement/Revolution was supposed to happen. betsuni Mar 2023 #19

By a few votes. Stein took enough votes Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #30

religionists who voted for trump care not about his anti chrisitian behavior nt msongs Mar 2023 #3

Perhaps now, but back then? If we had laid it on thick? I Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2023 #7

religionists dont give a crap about the actual religion. germany was overwhelmingly xtian nt msongs Mar 2023 #10

No inthewind21 Mar 2023 #57

While Certainly True... ProfessorGAC Mar 2023 #52

I think Comey's BS about Hillary right before the election BigmanPigman Mar 2023 #4

Aside .. read that NY was gonna expose their HRC Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2023 #9

That's my understanding of events Johonny Mar 2023 #33

Really? :). So few people seem to understand this. Thanks! nt Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2023 #35

+1, Nate Silver said that's when she lost showing polls uponit7771 Mar 2023 #27

+1. Well, hope the exact same thing happens to TFG Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2023 #36

I agree it very well could have changed the outcome had that gone public Hugh_Lebowski Mar 2023 #6

+1 the Comey letter added to the fanciful belief Laura PourMeADrink Mar 2023 #8

Media/Trump and Third party voters wouldn't have cared: too invested in hating the fictional Hillary betsuni Mar 2023 #12

I agree Johonny Mar 2023 #34

True. HRC would have won had all Dems hating on her voted for her, Period! nt Samrob Mar 2023 #23

She lost because of one pompous arrogant man. boston bean Mar 2023 #25

+1 GoodRaisin Mar 2023 #42

Half right. Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #51

And because the media did a great job Tree Lady Mar 2023 #55

I think it was partly due to Comey not following FBI protocol (didn't keep his mouth shut), ... JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2023 #26

I don't think it would have made an iota of difference to Trump voters. He's not exaggerating Vinca Mar 2023 #28

Honestly, she lost because she had been demonized by right wing commentators for 25 years Buckeyeblue Mar 2023 #29

How "hawkish"? Please explain. Why would she be responsible for Bill? betsuni Mar 2023 #31

Answers below Buckeyeblue Mar 2023 #38

But HRC's approval was in the 70%s (!!!) as U.S. senator and SecState. Hortensis Mar 2023 #53

+ 1 Million Just A Box Of Rain Mar 2023 #60

Doubt it would have made any impact - nobody thought Trump was "pure". Midwestern Democrat Mar 2023 #32

She lost on the margin because of Comey. GoodRaisin Mar 2023 #43

Hillary DID win the election. It was stolen from her. fescuerescue Mar 2023 #46

No inthewind21 Mar 2023 #58

You are forgetting about the Russians fescuerescue Mar 2023 #61

No, I'm not inthewind21 Mar 2023 #64

Big mouth Comey lame54 Mar 2023 #48

0.0000000001 chance of impacting outcome. SYFROYH Mar 2023 #59

It is impossible to know karynnj Mar 2023 #63