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Fiendish Thingy

(24,393 posts)

15. Defaulting would cause the markets to consider US bonds invalid, worthless

Tue May 9, 2023, 12:20 AM

May 2023

Can you point to anyone else who is focusing on the word “valid” as a rationale against Biden using the 14th to justify acting on the debt ceiling without congress?

You seem to be thinking of this in terms of mortgages or automobiles- if you default on those, the lender takes back the collateral on the still-valid debt.

If the US defaults, there is no collateral to repossess, and the markets would treat both current and future debt as either worthless or worth less, in essence declaring the debt wholly or partially “invalid” by the act of default. Sure, the bond holders could sue to try and collect, or just wait for the ceiling to be eventually lifted, but the damage would be done to the US credit rating and market confidence, AND the budget law authorizing the expenditures would be violated, and Biden would be violating his oath and duty.

Again, if you can provide a link to someone, anyone, who shares your perspective on the debt ceiling, 14th amendment, and the “validity” of US debt, I’d love to see it.

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14th Amendment emerges as last-ditch fix to ward off default [View all] Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2023 OP

It's a constitutional crisis worth triggering IMO Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #1

If the Court had to vote on the merits, they'd probably rule 9-0 against the use of the 14th. onenote May 2023 #2

But wouldn't a default effectively render US bonds "invalid"? Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #4

I could read it a bit differently. Igel May 2023 #10

So bonds must be paid, and a budget bill is a law authorizing expenditures Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #11

Not as a legal concept. Again, think about common types of debt onenote May 2023 #12

You're making the word "valid" do a lot of heavy lifting here. Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #13

Really? What do you think the plain meaning of validity is? onenote May 2023 #14

Defaulting would cause the markets to consider US bonds invalid, worthless Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #15

What happens when you default on your credit card? onenote May 2023 #17

If you don't pay your credit card, it gets cancelled Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #19

Another point to consider Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #21

Not a lawyer, but unsure you're right Deminpenn May 2023 #6

How can they rule against what's in the Constitution? brush May 2023 #9

Agreed! DemocraticPatriot May 2023 #25

The question is this...would SCOTUS say we've set a precedent Buckeyeblue May 2023 #3

Well, it was supposed to be the Courts who "set precedents", not congress--- DemocraticPatriot May 2023 #26

Since 1960 Emile May 2023 #5

Mint the coin and slap McCarthy's face on it Arazi May 2023 #7

Mint a bunch of high value coins IbogaProject May 2023 #8

The President has more troops than the Supreme Court..... DemocraticPatriot May 2023 #16

That would be a dangerous precedent Silent3 May 2023 #18

It is indeed dangerous, but a necessary constitutional crisis that should be triggered Fiendish Thingy May 2023 #20

Some very-red states, and red counties in blue states, are already taking the opinion that DemocraticPatriot May 2023 #24

Inapt analogy onenote May 2023 #22

I applied that quote to the wrong case. I was not Dred Scot, it was Lincoln's suspension DemocraticPatriot May 2023 #23