General Discussion

OneTenthofOnePercent

(6,268 posts)

53. They are Progressive Libertarians that value liberalism over DNC values.

Reply to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Original post)

Wed Dec 14, 2011, 06:50 PM

Dec 2011

There are conservative libertarians and progressive libertarians. The political spectrum is not just a Left versus Right continuum... there is also a "vertical" aspect to it. It's more of a grid. Progressive really describes the beliefs and goals of a government. It's analogue would be Conservative. Libertarian really describes ones belief in HOW the government should go about enforcing it's policies. It's analogue would be Authoritarian.

For example, bush was a conservative-authoritarian. I would describe Ron Paul as a centrist-libertarian... he has mixed stances on issues that normally divide progressives & conservatives but advocates a free "hands off" government with less restriction.

I can see how alot of libertarians that AREN'T conservative would choose to support Ron Paul.

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Please explain why some liberals support Ron Paul... [View all] Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 OP

Ayn Rand. comipinko Dec 2011 #1

lots of people have one major issue that they dwell on rurallib Dec 2011 #2

You�re right � Cigar11 Dec 2011 #3

It would be like having a beer with that guy in the Tom Rush song GoneOffShore Dec 2011 #72

Including the war on drugs. DocMac Dec 2011 #5

And the "liberals" that DO support him think socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #74

For my brother, who is generally not insane, but is an avid Paul supporter... Ed Suspicious Dec 2011 #4

Because they aren't reading the fine print. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #6

I think there's a difference between support catabryna Dec 2011 #7

In this sense, I speak of "support," not just "agree with." As I mentioned in my OP, I agree with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #14

I did read your entire post... catabryna Dec 2011 #22

Yep, I think many thinking people "agree" with Ron Paul. truedelphi Dec 2011 #50

I could never support a bigot no matter what other issue that I may be in agreement with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #67

I voted for Obama, and I would have voted for Clinton if she won the nomination. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #77

And Ron Paul is even MORE of a bigot towards the LGBT community. Next... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #99

I was addressing your comment ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #112

Support = "vote for" Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #114

Please cease and desist from comparing MoRon Paul to DK or progressives MattBaggins Dec 2011 #93

+1! Excellent!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #100

Not true. Republicrat059 Dec 2011 #116

2 reasons Ratty Dec 2011 #8

The ones that live around here all have one thing in common. They are all racist asscarrots NNN0LHI Dec 2011 #9

I'm inclined to agree wholeheartedly because even when you point out his bigotry, Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #37

War, occupation, and drugs Seedersandleechers Dec 2011 #10

Convictions can be poor measurements Lefergus70 Dec 2011 #86

The old saying "politics make strange bedfellows" applies The Genealogist Dec 2011 #11

Because they think they are liberals but they are really libertarians frazzled Dec 2011 #12

Yeah, I think that they are actually modern day Libertarians but not Libertarians in the Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #16

Anarchists really don't care what you do in your own home. harmonicon Dec 2011 #88

Well then Ron Paul is not an anarchist because he does care what you do in your own home... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #89

I know that. That was my point. harmonicon Dec 2011 #106

Got it! +1 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #111

you can't be a liberal and support Ron Paul Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #13

"You can't be a liberal and support Ron Paul." Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #17

agreed Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #20

It's similar to asking "How can you support Democrats, with all the wars, War on Drugs, etc."? Romulox Dec 2011 #15

You are correct! ctwayne Dec 2011 #81

A false perception of concurrence on some positions. Viking12 Dec 2011 #18

so if you don't support someone overall, they can't be right about ANYTHING? Did you take critical yurbud Dec 2011 #64

Where did I say that? Viking12 Dec 2011 #101

Because they are fuckin ignorant? johncoby2 Dec 2011 #19

Maybe if our party would get with the fucking program on personal liberty- ending the war on drugs- Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #21

Two words: Dennis Kucinich Ratty Dec 2011 #23

Meh. I've gone in and out in terms of Kooch. I actually had a phase in 2008 where I was backing him. Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #25

See my Post #26. I agree 100% Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #27

I think I agree with you Ratty Dec 2011 #30

Yes, if the choice is between Paul or Kucinich, obviously Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #36

In my view, Ron Paul is also morally bankrupt if he is (1) a bigot; (2) believes that a private Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #44

if you think I'm going to defend Ron Paul or those views, you've got the wrong guy Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #45

I hear you. No, we're on the same side. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #49

Yes. The other problem with Ron Paul is that he is NOT as principled as everyone seems to believe. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #40

Exactly! I supported Kucinich in 2008, but then he started to get crazy on me after that. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #26

there were several people hoping for a Kucinich/Paul ticket back in 2008 fishwax Dec 2011 #80

I would think Aerows Dec 2011 #24

Have I mentioned Ron Paul isn't anti-war? ProSense Dec 2011 #28

THANK YOU! redqueen Dec 2011 #47

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #58

stick to the facts Republicrat059 Dec 2011 #117

What is the mystery? Vattel Dec 2011 #29

The problem with your assessment is that Ron Paul is NOT really for civil liberties. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #41

I guess I disagree to some extent. Vattel Dec 2011 #56

OK, but he is not consistent which is the point I was making. And he is a bigot! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #66

I agree with that! Vattel Dec 2011 #73

His positions are a little more nuanced than that. Galle Dec 2011 #75

The "state issue" is a cop out. We don't let President Obama get away with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #102

Well... Galle Dec 2011 #107

Perhaps, but I still think that Ron Paul is being a bit disingenuous here, just as Obama is. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #110

Because they haven't seen this AlbertCat Dec 2011 #31

"I'll haunt your prostate!" progressoid Dec 2011 #46

Because (like my Mom) they don't know about the racism, KamaAina Dec 2011 #32

You forgot the "batshit crazy". n/t gkhouston Dec 2011 #84

When asked for a comment, a spokesperson for the local chapter of "Jews for Hitler" stated ... 11 Bravo Dec 2011 #33

Krugman: ProSense Dec 2011 #34

Thanks, ProSense! This should be the *COMPELLING* argument! The fact that his ideas are not only Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #43

There are a multitude of reasons to support Paul as the Republican Nominee Uncle Joe Dec 2011 #35

They are NOT liberals n/t librechik Dec 2011 #38

I agree. There's no way they're liberals. redqueen Dec 2011 #48

I think they (and I) agree with him on certain points (war, drugs, etc.) but aren't aware of his gateley Dec 2011 #39

NO LIBERAL would vote for Ron Paul. NONE. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #42

the point of OP is to put stink on the few good ideas Ron Paul has by setting up this straw man yurbud Dec 2011 #63

Wrong! I'm trying to understand the blatant contradiction in ideas. And I've already Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #68

are you sure you aren't confusing ''support'' with ''agree with him on some issues''? yurbud Dec 2011 #51

I can say Hitler had a way with khakis without supporting his anti-Semitism or wishing he won WWII. yurbud Dec 2011 #52

Maybe he's not serious but I could agree with this proposal by Paul Uncle Joe Dec 2011 #54

They are Progressive Libertarians that value liberalism over DNC values. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #53

Thanks! I made this point earlier. Love your signature pic, BTW! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #69

Do you realize that if we continue as we are going, we are ALL in jeopardy? George Glass Dec 2011 #55

A Libertarian sulphurdunn Dec 2011 #57

simple. they don't take the time to read his whole platform. Javaman Dec 2011 #59

It's not that you don't understand- it's that they dont Dragonbreathp9d Dec 2011 #60

WOW! That's an interesting take on this! Thanks!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #70

why not? mdmc Dec 2011 #61

But this is *DEMOCRATIC* Underground. Should we be supporting ANY Republican, especially one Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #71

One-issue-ism. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #62

Epidemic of temporary insanity? That's how I explain my Mother's current infatuation. REP Dec 2011 #65

Tunnel vision. gtar100 Dec 2011 #76

His brand of Libertarianism intersects w/progressivism. Also intersects with racism & whatever you DirkGently Dec 2011 #78

Yeah, let me explain it. napoleon_in_rags Dec 2011 #79

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #82

I just read that Obama has a 84% approval rating amongst liberals madokie Dec 2011 #83

Because of his attitude about WAR. Stevepol Dec 2011 #85

Ron Paul is like a doctor who can diagnose a disease correctly... MrScorpio Dec 2011 #87

I thought he was neutral on gay rights and abortion? mainer Dec 2011 #90

See my response, Post #102 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #103

I don't think it's that liberals support him. I think he just doesn't inspire disgust mainer Dec 2011 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author LaurenG Dec 2011 #92

Because he's only HALF crazy. PassingFair Dec 2011 #94

Are The Paul's Really Libertarians? DallasNE Dec 2011 #95

See my response, Post #16 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #104

A suggestion Bragi Dec 2011 #108

Thanks! I'll try that. :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #109

Support No, agree with him on some issues Yes Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #96

See my response upthread. I made this distinction earlier, and in my OP... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #105

Ron Paul is an Ugly Little Troll unionworks Dec 2011 #97

Do they? Laelth Dec 2011 #98

sirota has a soft spot for him, that's for sure dionysus Dec 2011 #119

I only support Paul thescreaminghead Dec 2011 #113

But he only holds this view because he hates government and regulation! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #115

yesterday, sirota was filling in for randi and spent most of the show kissing ron pauls ass. dionysus Dec 2011 #118

Still angry at Sirota for his shots at Melissa Harris Perry. At any rate, I podcast Randi every day, Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #120

Message deleted by the DU Administrators Plume Dec 2011 #121

Huh. Not buying it. He wants to repeal Roe v Wade. PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #123

So the 6th Ammendment doesn't matter to you? hyacinth house Dec 2011 #122

I'm asking a fairly straightforward question. Has nothing to do with me or my own views. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #125

You mean why some Ron Paul supporters call themselves liberal? Orsino Dec 2011 #124