General Discussion

BouzoukiKing

(163 posts)

11. Firstly, my vote had nothing to do with 'entitlements'.

Reply to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:59 AM

Nov 2012

I did, however, put considerable thought and effort into making my position on BENEFITS (you know - those things we earn and pay for during our working lives?) very clear.

Our entitlement programs can use some work, and some expansion - but this election was more about re-defining the word 'benefit' than it was about actual entitlement programs. Apparently with some success.

And SECONDLY, I did NOT vote "...for the government to continue to borrow and spend". I voted for the government to TAX and spend - that is to raise taxes commensurate with what we spend, on those who've been getting a mostly-free tax pass, and stop kicking the financial can at our children and grandchildren. Yes, borrowing to spend has been necessary; but as a viable financial plan, how sustainable is it?

But no, I'm not particularly worried about the deficit either. Time for that later...

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I did not vote for a "Grand Bargain" [View all] cthulu2016 Nov 2012 OP

Neither did I. nt Mnemosyne Nov 2012 #1

Kicking patrice Nov 2012 #2

This purist agrees! forestpath Nov 2012 #3

Kick - eom fleur-de-lisa Nov 2012 #4

I agree. I voted to kick the assholes to the curb. Atman Nov 2012 #5

+100000000 RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #61

I agree. nm rhett o rick Nov 2012 #6

Two things I didn't vote for: 1) Grand Bargains; 2) expanded ME wars. leveymg Nov 2012 #7

3 things that I didn't vote for: 1) Grand Bargains; 2) expanded ME wars; 3) more "free-trade" AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #184

It will be interesting to see how forgiving this board is should plethoro Nov 2012 #8

Nope. And I don't think Medicare for All is a unicorn. Scuba Nov 2012 #9

Nor do most Americans. dotymed Nov 2012 #32

damn purist who doesn't understand how government works quinnox Nov 2012 #10

"Did I cover all the lame and pathetic talking points?" Respectfully, I think that you overlooked AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #45

+1 haikugal Nov 2012 #49

Firstly, my vote had nothing to do with 'entitlements'. BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #11

+1 ProfessorGAC Nov 2012 #23

What, exactly, is wrong with the term "Entitlement?" Atman Nov 2012 #24

asdf BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #25

That appears totally backward to me. Atman Nov 2012 #51

I meant no snottiness. BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #59

First, it's time we quit worrying about the RW noise machine. Dawgs Nov 2012 #73

That includes letting them define the terms used kenfrequed Nov 2012 #91

The only reason it sounds 'iffy' is because you've listened to too many republicans. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #147

No kenfrequed Nov 2012 #183

no, when you say someone is entitled to something it means they're entitled to it. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #187

Yeah kenfrequed Nov 2012 #188

I'm not worried about the RW noise machine. I'm worried about the 3rd-wayers. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #181

A fair concern kenfrequed Nov 2012 #182

Then you voted for bad economics cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #28

People need to hear that. PETRUS Nov 2012 #36

I am not an economist, but from what I know about MMT, it sounds flaky cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #38

Thanks. PETRUS Nov 2012 #46

My impression is that cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #47

Ah PETRUS Nov 2012 #52

That sounds right to me, and compatible with Keynes cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #58

As I said: BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #55

Argh! You and I agree far more than we disagree, but this meme drive me fucking crazy. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #89

No, C'mon man... That is barely even a word game cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #93

No, it isn't. Treasury bonds are the only mechanism that exists to create new money, period. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #96

I don't want to be disagreeable, but this is wrong cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #99

Being disagreeable is just fine, it's what makes this board worth coming to. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #103

Another option PETRUS Nov 2012 #95

That is correct, and you're also right that this is not the place for that discussion. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #97

If there are no loans, and no one is borrowing any money, then to whom are Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #177

We are redeeming bonds previously sold, mostly through the issuance of new bonds and Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #180

Bonds are loans. Period. Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #185

Derp de derp. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #186

Sadly, I don't believe there was an option on the ballot NorthCarolina Nov 2012 #12

I'm amazed that anyone coming off this nasty election cycle desires to find common Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #13

Wow! FredStembottom Nov 2012 #60

Absolutely true! For years, I've been at war with that pseudo-reasonable truism, Raksha Nov 2012 #146

k&r appal_jack Nov 2012 #14

This^^ txdemsftw Nov 2012 #42

K&R. We already got a study in "bargains" during O's first term. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #15

well, that's why I thought it important to discuss before the election here and elsewhere stupidicus Nov 2012 #16

I just went away. FredStembottom Nov 2012 #63

indeed stupidicus Nov 2012 #111

Well, they seem as rigidly intractable as any people I have ever encountered. FredStembottom Nov 2012 #135

Bill Black calls it the "Grand Betrayal". nt tsuki Nov 2012 #17

I'm stealing that quinnox Nov 2012 #18

I still think the President is willing to raise the Medicare age to 67. dawg Nov 2012 #19

Raising the Medicare eligibility ag= mass murder on a scale never even conceived by Al Qaida eridani Nov 2012 #122

I was just thinking, I'll be dead before then. gateley Nov 2012 #136

I totally agree with you. dawg Nov 2012 #141

If ACA is used as a excuse for eliminating Medicare, it is toast. Period eridani Nov 2012 #145

I have already seen Christina Romer using the ACA for exactly that purpose. dawg Nov 2012 #151

I voted for good governance bhikkhu Nov 2012 #20

+1 n/t ChazII Nov 2012 #133

Oh Gawd. Are Dems going to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory? SunSeeker Nov 2012 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author PETRUS Nov 2012 #22

Sorry, but we're all about compromise now. JoeyT Nov 2012 #26

K&R Myrina Nov 2012 #27

Uh huh, even before the elections remember the 716 million Iliyah Nov 2012 #29

I am not saying Obama is a bad guy. I am saying the time to say this is BEFORE cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #31

You say "I think Pres O and crew will protect Medicare, et al, as well as SSI." AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #39

Then write your President, Representative, and Senators. I had no illusions. I voted for the still_one Nov 2012 #30

+1....fully expect to be somewhat disappointed but the alternative was to hideous to ponder. yourout Nov 2012 #104

Absolutely. still_one Nov 2012 #105

I did not vote for a "Grand Bargain" nor did I vote for another "Free-Trade" agreement AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #33

+1 There's no such thing as enough, only more. n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #170

+1 Union Scribe Nov 2012 #175

I didn't either. Still doesnt mean we are going to get the votes in the House for what we want. stevenleser Nov 2012 #34

I voted to keep the Dems in the Majority and they better act like it and NOT talk with rePUKES!!! underoath Nov 2012 #35

Perhaps you didn't, but... brooklynite Nov 2012 #37

But entitlements shouldn't be part of it cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #44

It is being used as a pretext to do just that. haikugal Nov 2012 #62

"Fiscal Cliff" kenfrequed Nov 2012 #92

There is no cliff, this is just another another cap resolution dressed u pto scare people that don't Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #172

Obama's Grand Bargain could end up being Obama's Grand Destruction fasttense Nov 2012 #40

Gen X will be able to do pay as you go. Gen Y is another demographic lump like baby boomers eridani Nov 2012 #130

Amen. FiveGoodMen Nov 2012 #41

K&R tosh Nov 2012 #43

Kick! grahamhgreen Nov 2012 #48

Ditto! nt avebury Nov 2012 #50

rec. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #53

I must have missed it...on MY ballot were Romney, Obama, and 2 or 3 minor candidates.... George II Nov 2012 #54

There is not going to be a "Grand Bargain" emulatorloo Nov 2012 #56

According to third way position papers it is largely a done deal Dragonfli Nov 2012 #74

Nor did I. hifiguy Nov 2012 #57

My vote was to keep Romney from burning this country to the ground. President can do whatever he AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #64

I don't think there would have been as many republicans voted into congress in 2010... rwsanders Nov 2012 #65

I did not vote for a grand capitulation either. lark Nov 2012 #66

Nor Did I !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #67

K & R AzDar Nov 2012 #68

Hear hear. woo me with science Nov 2012 #69

I tried to vote against it. tblue Nov 2012 #70

better not happen southmost Nov 2012 #71

hear hear! and your 'note' shouldn't be necessary, yet sadly is to stop any negative comments back Divine Discontent Nov 2012 #72

But you voted for a guy that you knew would seek such a bargain michigandem58 Nov 2012 #75

A deficit reduction deal, yes. A 'grand bargain' involving entitlements, no. cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #80

I don't think his rhetoric has changed dramatically michigandem58 Nov 2012 #108

Neither did I Carolina Nov 2012 #76

Nor did our household. avaistheone1 Nov 2012 #77

You only vote for people to hold offices treestar Nov 2012 #78

And then, as the 1st Amendment provides, you tell them what you were voting for cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #82

60 million people voted for the President treestar Nov 2012 #142

Grand Bargain grammiepammie Nov 2012 #79

Here in America... cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #84

K & R dchill Nov 2012 #81

Yeah, let's all start freaking out over hypotheticals Jersey Devil Nov 2012 #83

Your world would be nothing but ashes cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #85

I also don't look for bogeymen under my bed Jersey Devil Nov 2012 #86

I miss unrec krawhitham Nov 2012 #87

K & R n/t glinda Nov 2012 #88

You're nothing but a troll. Just the other day, Obama MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 #90

Neither did I Liberalynn Nov 2012 #94

I did not vote for the grand bargain Evergreen Emerald Nov 2012 #98

What is actually being said? ballaratocker Nov 2012 #100

You have a point but humbled_opinion Nov 2012 #101

Absolutely agreed. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #102

The people elected a Democratic President and a Republican Congress. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #106

Then let them bargain with the Military Budget which is destroying this country sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #107

"It is up to Dems to stop them, period." woo me with science Nov 2012 #112

But they VOTED for a Democratic Congress. cui bono Nov 2012 #114

They gerrymandering is horrible, and both sides have engaged in it. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #120

Amen to that cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #144

Btw, the people did not elect a Republican Congress. That is Republican math you're sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #125

I believe this to be true SCALA13 Nov 2012 #143

kick Angry Dragon Nov 2012 #109

Obama should punt this to the next Congress where Dems are a bit stronger. limpyhobbler Nov 2012 #110

Nor did I. cui bono Nov 2012 #113

I am a conservative Democrat TM99 Nov 2012 #115

We voted for NO CUTS to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. NO CUTS. Overseas Nov 2012 #116

I'm not sure agent46 Nov 2012 #117

You're not sure "why anybody might believe that Obama will suddenly go left"? The answer, I suggest AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #124

That's because agent46 Nov 2012 #127

I agree with your second part, but the first part gives me a reason to pause. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #129

I pushed mysellf to vote for Obama again & my worry was because of the "Grand Bargain" he might do. KoKo Nov 2012 #118

I did, sort of democrattotheend Nov 2012 #119

That is right wing talking point horseshit--that same damned garbage that I first heard in college-- eridani Nov 2012 #131

K & R! lonestarnot Nov 2012 #121

You voted for a representative to make decisions for you. randome Nov 2012 #123

Unfortunately we probably will argiel1234 Nov 2012 #126

No matter agent46 Nov 2012 #128

The President campaigned on reaching a debt reduction deal BainsBane Nov 2012 #132

Let the tax cuts expire and the ill advised sequester the same folks cheered kick in. TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #137

How does it help for everyone's taxes to go up? BainsBane Nov 2012 #138

Debt reduction. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #148

Not true BainsBane Nov 2012 #155

We are talking about Bush's tax cut rudycantfail Nov 2012 #156

The fiscal cliff includes many taxes BainsBane Nov 2012 #157

Let the so-called fiscal cliff, a boogyman created by both parties, happen. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #161

Such a bill has already been passed by the senate BainsBane Nov 2012 #162

Please stop with the cliff, cliff, cliff, off the cliff nonsense. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #165

I think that is the likely result BainsBane Nov 2012 #171

Ending the payroll tax holiday rudycantfail Nov 2012 #149

It is estimated that ending that holiday BainsBane Nov 2012 #154

Sell that Kudlow CNBC shit somewhere else. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #158

It isn't Kudlow shit BainsBane Nov 2012 #159

"It is demand-side economics" rudycantfail Nov 2012 #164

NO BainsBane Nov 2012 #168

That is not supply-side, it is basic Keynes cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #178

How can you possibly think Kudlow and his type give a damn about payroll taxes? BainsBane Nov 2012 #160

Coupling SS with the debt via payroll tax holiday rudycantfail Nov 2012 #163

The payroll tax holiday is Obama's BainsBane Nov 2012 #173

Congress can introduce a bill in January theaocp Nov 2012 #150

Helps more than robbing my Social Security and adding years of desperate prayer TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #167

100% End of story. Fearless Nov 2012 #134

"the deficit is largely a product of low economic growth" Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #139

NO GRAND BARGAIN! mother earth Nov 2012 #140

THUMBS UP quantass Nov 2012 #152

But you are going to get one Puzzledtraveller Nov 2012 #153

Relax...if we can get the GOP to bargain, we might actually get something done Taverner Nov 2012 #166

Bargain with what to get what done? n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #169

But, cat food builds character jsr Nov 2012 #174

No you did not. But America did. davidn3600 Nov 2012 #176

I agree--- we did not nor ever will get rid of all or enough sitting Republicans so compromise Shilo Nov 2012 #179