General Discussion

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)

96. No, it isn't. Treasury bonds are the only mechanism that exists to create new money, period.

Reply to cthulu2016 (Reply #93)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:56 PM

Nov 2012

A mortgage is a loan. If the terms of that loan are not met the mortgage holder has the right to seize whatever asset was used to secure that loan, usually the item that the loans was made for. IOW ownership transfers back to the lending institution or person. That is vastly different from the issuance and sale of a government bond.

The only terms of a government bond is that it will be redeemed at the agreed upon rate on the agreed upon date. This the fundamental difference between a government and a bank. Now we can go into the whole Federal Reserve system, its mechanisms and it's various shortcomings, but the whole thread would die of disinterest.

Even bank loans are not loans as you apparently misunderstand them, but I'm not going to go into this now as it will probably just confuse the issue.

Sorry man, but you're just wrong on this one.

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I did not vote for a "Grand Bargain" [View all] cthulu2016 Nov 2012 OP

Neither did I. nt Mnemosyne Nov 2012 #1

Kicking patrice Nov 2012 #2

This purist agrees! forestpath Nov 2012 #3

Kick - eom fleur-de-lisa Nov 2012 #4

I agree. I voted to kick the assholes to the curb. Atman Nov 2012 #5

+100000000 RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #61

I agree. nm rhett o rick Nov 2012 #6

Two things I didn't vote for: 1) Grand Bargains; 2) expanded ME wars. leveymg Nov 2012 #7

3 things that I didn't vote for: 1) Grand Bargains; 2) expanded ME wars; 3) more "free-trade" AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #184

It will be interesting to see how forgiving this board is should plethoro Nov 2012 #8

Nope. And I don't think Medicare for All is a unicorn. Scuba Nov 2012 #9

Nor do most Americans. dotymed Nov 2012 #32

damn purist who doesn't understand how government works quinnox Nov 2012 #10

"Did I cover all the lame and pathetic talking points?" Respectfully, I think that you overlooked AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #45

+1 haikugal Nov 2012 #49

Firstly, my vote had nothing to do with 'entitlements'. BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #11

+1 ProfessorGAC Nov 2012 #23

What, exactly, is wrong with the term "Entitlement?" Atman Nov 2012 #24

asdf BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #25

That appears totally backward to me. Atman Nov 2012 #51

I meant no snottiness. BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #59

First, it's time we quit worrying about the RW noise machine. Dawgs Nov 2012 #73

That includes letting them define the terms used kenfrequed Nov 2012 #91

The only reason it sounds 'iffy' is because you've listened to too many republicans. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #147

No kenfrequed Nov 2012 #183

no, when you say someone is entitled to something it means they're entitled to it. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #187

Yeah kenfrequed Nov 2012 #188

I'm not worried about the RW noise machine. I'm worried about the 3rd-wayers. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #181

A fair concern kenfrequed Nov 2012 #182

Then you voted for bad economics cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #28

People need to hear that. PETRUS Nov 2012 #36

I am not an economist, but from what I know about MMT, it sounds flaky cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #38

Thanks. PETRUS Nov 2012 #46

My impression is that cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #47

Ah PETRUS Nov 2012 #52

That sounds right to me, and compatible with Keynes cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #58

As I said: BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #55

Argh! You and I agree far more than we disagree, but this meme drive me fucking crazy. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #89

No, C'mon man... That is barely even a word game cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #93

No, it isn't. Treasury bonds are the only mechanism that exists to create new money, period. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #96

I don't want to be disagreeable, but this is wrong cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #99

Being disagreeable is just fine, it's what makes this board worth coming to. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #103

Another option PETRUS Nov 2012 #95

That is correct, and you're also right that this is not the place for that discussion. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #97

If there are no loans, and no one is borrowing any money, then to whom are Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #177

We are redeeming bonds previously sold, mostly through the issuance of new bonds and Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #180

Bonds are loans. Period. Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #185

Derp de derp. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #186

Sadly, I don't believe there was an option on the ballot NorthCarolina Nov 2012 #12

I'm amazed that anyone coming off this nasty election cycle desires to find common Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #13

Wow! FredStembottom Nov 2012 #60

Absolutely true! For years, I've been at war with that pseudo-reasonable truism, Raksha Nov 2012 #146

k&r appal_jack Nov 2012 #14

This^^ txdemsftw Nov 2012 #42

K&R. We already got a study in "bargains" during O's first term. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #15

well, that's why I thought it important to discuss before the election here and elsewhere stupidicus Nov 2012 #16

I just went away. FredStembottom Nov 2012 #63

indeed stupidicus Nov 2012 #111

Well, they seem as rigidly intractable as any people I have ever encountered. FredStembottom Nov 2012 #135

Bill Black calls it the "Grand Betrayal". nt tsuki Nov 2012 #17

I'm stealing that quinnox Nov 2012 #18

I still think the President is willing to raise the Medicare age to 67. dawg Nov 2012 #19

Raising the Medicare eligibility ag= mass murder on a scale never even conceived by Al Qaida eridani Nov 2012 #122

I was just thinking, I'll be dead before then. gateley Nov 2012 #136

I totally agree with you. dawg Nov 2012 #141

If ACA is used as a excuse for eliminating Medicare, it is toast. Period eridani Nov 2012 #145

I have already seen Christina Romer using the ACA for exactly that purpose. dawg Nov 2012 #151

I voted for good governance bhikkhu Nov 2012 #20

+1 n/t ChazII Nov 2012 #133

Oh Gawd. Are Dems going to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory? SunSeeker Nov 2012 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author PETRUS Nov 2012 #22

Sorry, but we're all about compromise now. JoeyT Nov 2012 #26

K&R Myrina Nov 2012 #27

Uh huh, even before the elections remember the 716 million Iliyah Nov 2012 #29

I am not saying Obama is a bad guy. I am saying the time to say this is BEFORE cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #31

You say "I think Pres O and crew will protect Medicare, et al, as well as SSI." AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #39

Then write your President, Representative, and Senators. I had no illusions. I voted for the still_one Nov 2012 #30

+1....fully expect to be somewhat disappointed but the alternative was to hideous to ponder. yourout Nov 2012 #104

Absolutely. still_one Nov 2012 #105

I did not vote for a "Grand Bargain" nor did I vote for another "Free-Trade" agreement AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #33

+1 There's no such thing as enough, only more. n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #170

+1 Union Scribe Nov 2012 #175

I didn't either. Still doesnt mean we are going to get the votes in the House for what we want. stevenleser Nov 2012 #34

I voted to keep the Dems in the Majority and they better act like it and NOT talk with rePUKES!!! underoath Nov 2012 #35

Perhaps you didn't, but... brooklynite Nov 2012 #37

But entitlements shouldn't be part of it cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #44

It is being used as a pretext to do just that. haikugal Nov 2012 #62

"Fiscal Cliff" kenfrequed Nov 2012 #92

There is no cliff, this is just another another cap resolution dressed u pto scare people that don't Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #172

Obama's Grand Bargain could end up being Obama's Grand Destruction fasttense Nov 2012 #40

Gen X will be able to do pay as you go. Gen Y is another demographic lump like baby boomers eridani Nov 2012 #130

Amen. FiveGoodMen Nov 2012 #41

K&R tosh Nov 2012 #43

Kick! grahamhgreen Nov 2012 #48

Ditto! nt avebury Nov 2012 #50

rec. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #53

I must have missed it...on MY ballot were Romney, Obama, and 2 or 3 minor candidates.... George II Nov 2012 #54

There is not going to be a "Grand Bargain" emulatorloo Nov 2012 #56

According to third way position papers it is largely a done deal Dragonfli Nov 2012 #74

Nor did I. hifiguy Nov 2012 #57

My vote was to keep Romney from burning this country to the ground. President can do whatever he AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #64

I don't think there would have been as many republicans voted into congress in 2010... rwsanders Nov 2012 #65

I did not vote for a grand capitulation either. lark Nov 2012 #66

Nor Did I !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #67

K & R AzDar Nov 2012 #68

Hear hear. woo me with science Nov 2012 #69

I tried to vote against it. tblue Nov 2012 #70

better not happen southmost Nov 2012 #71

hear hear! and your 'note' shouldn't be necessary, yet sadly is to stop any negative comments back Divine Discontent Nov 2012 #72

But you voted for a guy that you knew would seek such a bargain michigandem58 Nov 2012 #75

A deficit reduction deal, yes. A 'grand bargain' involving entitlements, no. cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #80

I don't think his rhetoric has changed dramatically michigandem58 Nov 2012 #108

Neither did I Carolina Nov 2012 #76

Nor did our household. avaistheone1 Nov 2012 #77

You only vote for people to hold offices treestar Nov 2012 #78

And then, as the 1st Amendment provides, you tell them what you were voting for cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #82

60 million people voted for the President treestar Nov 2012 #142

Grand Bargain grammiepammie Nov 2012 #79

Here in America... cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #84

K & R dchill Nov 2012 #81

Yeah, let's all start freaking out over hypotheticals Jersey Devil Nov 2012 #83

Your world would be nothing but ashes cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #85

I also don't look for bogeymen under my bed Jersey Devil Nov 2012 #86

I miss unrec krawhitham Nov 2012 #87

K & R n/t glinda Nov 2012 #88

You're nothing but a troll. Just the other day, Obama MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 #90

Neither did I Liberalynn Nov 2012 #94

I did not vote for the grand bargain Evergreen Emerald Nov 2012 #98

What is actually being said? ballaratocker Nov 2012 #100

You have a point but humbled_opinion Nov 2012 #101

Absolutely agreed. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #102

The people elected a Democratic President and a Republican Congress. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #106

Then let them bargain with the Military Budget which is destroying this country sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #107

"It is up to Dems to stop them, period." woo me with science Nov 2012 #112

But they VOTED for a Democratic Congress. cui bono Nov 2012 #114

They gerrymandering is horrible, and both sides have engaged in it. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #120

Amen to that cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #144

Btw, the people did not elect a Republican Congress. That is Republican math you're sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #125

I believe this to be true SCALA13 Nov 2012 #143

kick Angry Dragon Nov 2012 #109

Obama should punt this to the next Congress where Dems are a bit stronger. limpyhobbler Nov 2012 #110

Nor did I. cui bono Nov 2012 #113

I am a conservative Democrat TM99 Nov 2012 #115

We voted for NO CUTS to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. NO CUTS. Overseas Nov 2012 #116

I'm not sure agent46 Nov 2012 #117

You're not sure "why anybody might believe that Obama will suddenly go left"? The answer, I suggest AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #124

That's because agent46 Nov 2012 #127

I agree with your second part, but the first part gives me a reason to pause. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #129

I pushed mysellf to vote for Obama again & my worry was because of the "Grand Bargain" he might do. KoKo Nov 2012 #118

I did, sort of democrattotheend Nov 2012 #119

That is right wing talking point horseshit--that same damned garbage that I first heard in college-- eridani Nov 2012 #131

K & R! lonestarnot Nov 2012 #121

You voted for a representative to make decisions for you. randome Nov 2012 #123

Unfortunately we probably will argiel1234 Nov 2012 #126

No matter agent46 Nov 2012 #128

The President campaigned on reaching a debt reduction deal BainsBane Nov 2012 #132

Let the tax cuts expire and the ill advised sequester the same folks cheered kick in. TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #137

How does it help for everyone's taxes to go up? BainsBane Nov 2012 #138

Debt reduction. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #148

Not true BainsBane Nov 2012 #155

We are talking about Bush's tax cut rudycantfail Nov 2012 #156

The fiscal cliff includes many taxes BainsBane Nov 2012 #157

Let the so-called fiscal cliff, a boogyman created by both parties, happen. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #161

Such a bill has already been passed by the senate BainsBane Nov 2012 #162

Please stop with the cliff, cliff, cliff, off the cliff nonsense. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #165

I think that is the likely result BainsBane Nov 2012 #171

Ending the payroll tax holiday rudycantfail Nov 2012 #149

It is estimated that ending that holiday BainsBane Nov 2012 #154

Sell that Kudlow CNBC shit somewhere else. rudycantfail Nov 2012 #158

It isn't Kudlow shit BainsBane Nov 2012 #159

"It is demand-side economics" rudycantfail Nov 2012 #164

NO BainsBane Nov 2012 #168

That is not supply-side, it is basic Keynes cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #178

How can you possibly think Kudlow and his type give a damn about payroll taxes? BainsBane Nov 2012 #160

Coupling SS with the debt via payroll tax holiday rudycantfail Nov 2012 #163

The payroll tax holiday is Obama's BainsBane Nov 2012 #173

Congress can introduce a bill in January theaocp Nov 2012 #150

Helps more than robbing my Social Security and adding years of desperate prayer TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #167

100% End of story. Fearless Nov 2012 #134

"the deficit is largely a product of low economic growth" Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #139

NO GRAND BARGAIN! mother earth Nov 2012 #140

THUMBS UP quantass Nov 2012 #152

But you are going to get one Puzzledtraveller Nov 2012 #153

Relax...if we can get the GOP to bargain, we might actually get something done Taverner Nov 2012 #166

Bargain with what to get what done? n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #169

But, cat food builds character jsr Nov 2012 #174

No you did not. But America did. davidn3600 Nov 2012 #176

I agree--- we did not nor ever will get rid of all or enough sitting Republicans so compromise Shilo Nov 2012 #179