General Discussion

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)

71. Let's try the analogy of an entire math class

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:15 AM

Nov 2012

If there are 10 tests in the math class, and a student gets 100% on all the tests, then they get an A.

Say a student gets 100% on the 1st 5 of the tests and on the 6th test they get 5%. After this disastrous test, the teacher sits them down, explains a few concepts, and then the kid goes back to getting 100% on the last 4, so the kid gets an A in the class.

But if a student gets 100% on the 1st 5 of the tests and on the 6th test they get 5% and the teacher never explains the concepts, the kid keeps getting 5% for the rest of the tests and winds up with an F in the class.

The idea behind public welfare is that maybe if you give someone a helping hand, they can become a productive member of society. It takes some time and energy and money, but it's part of the job.

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"If you made 110 points on my test then you can afford to give some to the person who made 72" [View all] Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 OP

you cant buy groceries or pay the rent or doctor with "test points" nt msongs Nov 2012 #1

Was gonna say, "test points" don't feed closeupready Nov 2012 #134

Lets say however, you did give that 10 points to the other students.... Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #2

Excellent! Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #3

Thought that's what you were aiming for. :) Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #10

How would giving 10 points to other kids improve scores in the long run? AlexSatan Nov 2012 #100

You're wrong. School is about test scores. Learning is incidental. Occulus Nov 2012 #129

Maybe in your classroom, AlexSatan Nov 2012 #140

It's a faulty analogy... Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #137

You said nothing of the sort. GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #138

Meaning progressive taxation doesn't work in this way Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #151

That's perfect. n/t Mira Nov 2012 #142

Is he a public school teacher? MotherPetrie Nov 2012 #4

ba-zing! Care Acutely Nov 2012 #44

Exactly. In his case he got zero on the test and depends on the largesse of others. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #106

Not everyone is the same. And who is to say that the 72 point person can't help the 110 person in sammytko Nov 2012 #5

Who cares why? Lightbulb_on Nov 2012 #143

The teacher here seems to misunderstand what grades are. surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #6

That makes sense..... Michigan Alum Nov 2012 #45

Ask them how they would feel if no matter how hard they worked... sadbear Nov 2012 #7

I was working on something along these lines Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #9

Legacies get a "Gentlemen's 'C'" from one of the Ivies, and an MBA. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #115

Taxes are paid for the luxury of living in a society Horse with no Name Nov 2012 #8

Ha! Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #13

If I made a 110, I could give away 20 points Ilsa Nov 2012 #11

Weak argument, particularly from a public employee. Barack_America Nov 2012 #12

That's the maddening part Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #15

I think the answer is easy Fence rider Nov 2012 #14

Spot on Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #17

It's A Flawed Analogy ChoppinBroccoli Nov 2012 #16

Damn good Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #19

i think a better analogy is asking if grandma qazplm Nov 2012 #34

Worse than that, it's a massively fucking stupid analogy. Hissyspit Nov 2012 #56

So, you were graded 110 on that test... DreamGypsy Nov 2012 #18

Have two students start with 100% dalaigh lllama Nov 2012 #20

Try The Little Red Hen jody Nov 2012 #21

some cool answers on this thread. flying rabbit Nov 2012 #22

Indeed! Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #23

Because.... AZ Mike Nov 2012 #24

That's the crux of the issue Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #36

+1. also, test scores aren't analogous to income. income is analogous to 'life', because in a HiPointDem Nov 2012 #48

Are you saying all kids AlexSatan Nov 2012 #101

No. AZ Mike Nov 2012 #109

OK AlexSatan Nov 2012 #110

maybe something about Do you Not Feed your Kid if they don't do well JI7 Nov 2012 #25

I know, we can ask the Czar of all the Russa's what he thinks. N/T Throckmorton Nov 2012 #66

Your answer may not be the most eloquently worded on this thread but, imo, it coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #69

. A math teacher is being this political? AND stupid? I'd let his Administrators know. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #26

Tell them there is no such thing as 110%. If there was, something would be out of whack. nt bluestate10 Nov 2012 #27

I was going to say this, too, but he said "points," not "per cent." :-) WinkyDink Nov 2012 #38

It's apples and oranges. drm604 Nov 2012 #28

true. Best answer here, IMHO....they have NOTHING to do with each other Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #53

Democrats want grantcart Nov 2012 #29

The obvious retort ... Lightbulb_on Nov 2012 #145

Really? Are you kidding? That is the kind of RW strawman that we should laugh out the door. grantcart Nov 2012 #148

Whoa there highspeed... Lightbulb_on Nov 2012 #150

Why the fuck is a teacher even discussing this with a student? proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 #30

Send him to the English Deparment and introduce him to Charles Dicken's works. libdem4life Nov 2012 #31

I once held this hope. Then I retired. :-) WinkyDink Nov 2012 #39

Well, if you're talking about teaching, I salute you. 5 years did me in. libdem4life Nov 2012 #42

It isn't about handing out bonuses. LiberalAndProud Nov 2012 #32

I have a Ph.D. in English, and I know about that 10% garthranzz Nov 2012 #33

He might have given a test with 150 points as the top. The S.A.T. isn't on the 100-point scale. :-) WinkyDink Nov 2012 #40

Not true AlexSatan Nov 2012 #103

boomerang! garthranzz Nov 2012 #154

The analogy assumes the rules of the economy are as simple and clearcut as the rules of a test. JHB Nov 2012 #35

+1. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #49

What if someone hits the teacher head-on in a car crash tomorrow while he's driving to work? blue neen Nov 2012 #37

You have nailed it, my friend, in 2 short paragraphs - n/t coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #70

+1 deutsey Nov 2012 #112

Touche! smirkymonkey Nov 2012 #159

I wonder if your daughter's math teacher would allow people to have math employees do their work JVS Nov 2012 #41

I think that teachers needs to be reported to the school board. Zoeisright Nov 2012 #43

There are many good explanations here, but explaining it to the mind of a kid can be difficult. Incitatus Nov 2012 #46

Here is the answer argiel1234 Nov 2012 #47

And if one kid is handed 10,000 points for not even taking the test? Marr Nov 2012 #50

This ^^^ AlexSatan Nov 2012 #105

1% of the kids get a percentage of the points awarded to the rest of his classmates. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #107

Yep deutsey Nov 2012 #114

Students aren't born with a hundred points on the tests they take. ck4829 Nov 2012 #51

Students aren't born with 110 points on their tests, but many who run our society bulloney Nov 2012 #79

Why would it be fair for one student to do nothing and get a 1,877,995% or enough TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #52

One kid in class starts the year with a guaranteed 110 on every test LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #54

Comparing a test, where all people are treated equally to a progressive tax system used Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #55

What an idiot. Hissyspit Nov 2012 #57

How 'bout this? BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #58

I wonder Milliesmom Nov 2012 #59

I'd be more interested in having that teacher explain his stupidity abelenkpe Nov 2012 #60

What a farce PD Turk Nov 2012 #61

Not brilliant, but remembering that I could have been faced with the same question. . . bvf Nov 2012 #62

Test points are part of you, Money is part of the world intaglio Nov 2012 #63

That's not how money works. harmonicon Nov 2012 #64

Okay, let's play with this jmowreader Nov 2012 #65

well now I am annoyed hfojvt Nov 2012 #67

The problem with the analogy is that every student is on an even playing field. jmondine Nov 2012 #68

Let's try the analogy of an entire math class XemaSab Nov 2012 #71

Every question on your test is worth half a point and every question on his test is worth one point Azathoth Nov 2012 #72

If the person who made 110 points had a clean, warm classroom and a small class in which to learn MADem Nov 2012 #73

Actually it is more like this quaker bill Nov 2012 #74

If his analogy were true (it isn't) He would be the one with 72 that gets 19 points Taitertots Nov 2012 #75

Hey teach...Too bad you're a teacher and don't realize you just describe precisely why you should Ya Basta Nov 2012 #76

This one is easy: The Straight Story Nov 2012 #77

Tell him to stop reading the spam from whistler162 Nov 2012 #78

Ask if girls should earn a score of 75% demwing Nov 2012 #80

We need to stop pushing that line 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #87

Nope, I'm fine with the truth demwing Nov 2012 #94

Pay inequality between careers definitely exists. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #113

Not what I read at all demwing Nov 2012 #118

Male and female workers who make the same choices earn nearly the same pay. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #147

The truth is a great thing and I am all for it 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #120

Just curious, which I should respond to-- demwing Nov 2012 #125

When a group that sought to prove the 30% wage gap 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #141

This message was self-deleted by its author HiPointDem Nov 2012 #156

It's a completely false analogy union_maid Nov 2012 #81

Bumper sticker logic jollyreaper2112 Nov 2012 #82

tell the teacher he gets an "A" in Math, but an "F" in social studies and history quinnox Nov 2012 #83

^^ This. Myrina Nov 2012 #136

But America is a nation. It is a society, made up of individuals. PATXgirl Nov 2012 #84

Right, because hunger and homelessness is like getting a C- Cal Carpenter Nov 2012 #85

I'd agree with that if everyone were given the same test 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #86

Is this a public school? If so where does he think his income is coming from? Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #88

You Don't Need An Analogy ProfessorGAC Nov 2012 #89

It is simply a false equivalency, end of story.... NotThisTime Nov 2012 #90

A more accurate analogy for the parties might be JoeyT Nov 2012 #91

He himself is being given points by others. Kaleva Nov 2012 #92

So....Is This Teacher's Behavior Now Accepted As Proper? Paladin Nov 2012 #93

What the teacher is telling your kid is amoral. reusrename Nov 2012 #95

Who's to say they didn't work just as hard? OnionPatch Nov 2012 #96

Well, you can start with the obvious, which is that academic grades can't be compared to income. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2012 #97

I love this Analogy... WaitWut Nov 2012 #98

That was funny Digit Nov 2012 #99

+1 ... Paris Hilton makes more than the teacher, so clearly, she is smarter than this teacher. JoePhilly Nov 2012 #117

Smarter *and* harder working 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #121

Ultra-stupid analogy bongbong Nov 2012 #102

yep Locrian Nov 2012 #116

The analogy falls apart simply because some people are better at math than others slackmaster Nov 2012 #104

How did he feel giving 19 points to the banksters who cheated on the test? deutsey Nov 2012 #108

Should dumb people be allowed to eat? dawg Nov 2012 #111

As a teacher, I'll say GaYellowDawg Nov 2012 #119

The purpose of the test is to measure knowledge Lucinda Nov 2012 #122

Suppose one person inherits the 110 test points and doesn't even have to take the test. drm604 Nov 2012 #123

Yup. I was shocked at how conservative most of my teacher colleagues turned out to be. The Midway Rebel Nov 2012 #124

Shit, I'd gladly donate 25 pounds to whoever wants them! Duer 157099 Nov 2012 #126

Use logic. Logic says that if any of the premises upaloopa Nov 2012 #127

The kid with 110 points should spend time tutoring the kid with 75. Class grades aren't zero sum. Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2012 #128

um...wait...isn't that the argument they use against clean air? DonRedwood Nov 2012 #130

People who use ill fitting analogies to make arguments... Quantess Nov 2012 #131

Can the kids give away their test points? If not then the analogy is baseless. chowder66 Nov 2012 #132

Can I just inherit points from my Dad? ThoughtCriminal Nov 2012 #133

I used that one Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #152

Because it takes nothing away from you, and increases your humanity Myrina Nov 2012 #135

In his world it would be OK to sell the extra points. GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #139

The basis of the argument is that both grade points and income are connected to MERIT and hard work GiaGiovanni Nov 2012 #144

The assumption here is that earnings are directly related to how hard you work LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #146

S'easy. Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #149

Unless I had the rest of the Class answer all of those questions FOR ME... Volaris Nov 2012 #153

+1 HiPointDem Nov 2012 #155

It must gall him that he's teaching EVERYONE ELSE'S kids and paying with HIS taxes. jtuck004 Nov 2012 #157

Ask him about plagarism rules... whistler162 Nov 2012 #158

Only if they were a Walmart heir and paid for it. nt tsuki Nov 2012 #160