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303squadron

(829 posts)
16. Not an EQUAL comparison
Sun Aug 6, 2023, 09:10 AM
Aug 2023

At Pearl Harbor, 3000 Americans died.

At Hiroshima the best estimates are 140,000 dead.

Is that a proportional response?


Americans like to think it's all about them. We know what happened on August 6th and 9th, 1945. But damn few Americans can tell me without looking it up what happened on August 8th, 1945. The Soviet Union attacked across a broad front in Manchuria and threw the Japanese army back with their strength and technological superiority. The Japanese had sent out peace feelers in June of 1945 through the only allied power that had not declared war on them - the Soviets. The feelers were rebuffed because the Allies had agreed to unconditional surrender and the Japanese had a condition they had to have.....their Emperor, who was not just a man, but GOD on earth. (Later MacArthur would let them have their emperor. Hirohito was never tried as a war criminal and remained emperor of Japan until his death in 1989.)

From a tactical and strategic point of view, from August 8th 1945 the Japanese were trapped. Consider:

The Soviets had one of the best battlefield tanks in the world, the T-34/85. No Japanese tank in Manchuria could stand up against it.
The Soviets had the best anti-tank destroyer in the Ilyushin Il-2, considered by many to be the finest ground attack airplane in WWII.
The Americans had at least three fighter planes that were technologically superior to anything the Japanese had.
The Americans with The B29 were firebombing Japanese cities at will.
The American Navy by August of 1945 totally controlled the seas and the Japanese Navy had ceased to be an effective fighting force.
Fighter sweeps over Japan by carrier based airplanes in June of 1945 were finding few to no targets worthy of attacking.

But, more importantly, and mostly unknown now to the American public, is the fact that the Japanese never beat the American submarine force. The Allies had fought a seasaw battle with the Germans in the early years of the war called the Battle of the Atlantic. The Allies won that battle by defeating the German submarines. Japan, an island nation with few natural resources, needed their sea commerce to survive. The American submarine fleet was strangling the island nation.

Beginning in 1944, US submarines began to target Japanese tankers. By the summer of 1945 no fuel oil from Java or Sumatra was getting through to the Japanese homeland. Their population would have froze to death in the winter of 1945-46.

By August 1945 the Americans had fire bombed 67 Japanese cities. To the Japanese, two more cities gone was not the impact that Americans like to think it was.

The winners get to re-write history to soothe any troubled conscience.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I saw Oppenheimer yesterday on an IMAX screen. lamp_shade Aug 2023 #1
I saw it on IMAX as well. ProudMNDemocrat Aug 2023 #3
I remember hiding under Tickle Aug 2023 #2
Me too. ProudMNDemocrat Aug 2023 #5
WOW that's so cool about your dad! Tickle Aug 2023 #7
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2023 #8
We Duck and covering in the 70's and early eighties still. Bluethroughu Aug 2023 #14
Where Were You? ProfessorGAC Aug 2023 #39
Same in Ohio. Xavier Breath Aug 2023 #41
I was in northern Illinois near Chain o Lakes. Bluethroughu Aug 2023 #44
Wow, That's Weird! ProfessorGAC Aug 2023 #49
I'm not sure but the alarm rang differently for tornado or bomb. Bluethroughu Aug 2023 #62
Surprising ProfessorGAC Aug 2023 #63
That's suprizing so few times with having to deal with drills, Bluethroughu Aug 2023 #64
i remember tornado drills in the hallway when i was in orleans Aug 2023 #50
I'm Just A Little Older ProfessorGAC Aug 2023 #55
I could remember sitting under the desk during the sirens, and thinking... Bluethroughu Aug 2023 #15
IN THE KING OF PRUSSIA: THE TRIAL OF THE PLOWSHARES 8 stuck in the middle Aug 2023 #4
The community loudspeaker alarm in my Japanese neighborhood went off this morning to betsuni Aug 2023 #6
Neither bomb was necessary 303squadron Aug 2023 #9
Yeah but what about Pearl Harbor? jimfields33 Aug 2023 #13
Not an EQUAL comparison 303squadron Aug 2023 #16
Once again, you're imposing western logic on Japanese thinking at the time. paleotn Aug 2023 #23
Japanese thinking 303squadron Aug 2023 #37
The ones that survived were part of the peace party. paleotn Aug 2023 #47
This right here. MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2023 #48
How many Chinese died? VGNonly Aug 2023 #43
Oh, so we forced the Japanese to commit war crimes. Is that it? paleotn Aug 2023 #45
Battle of Manila VGNonly Aug 2023 #46
No, they weren't. I took two imperial rescripts from Hirohito to end it. paleotn Aug 2023 #51
The Kyujo Incident. VGNonly Aug 2023 #53
With all due respect, it was a total war. Happy Hoosier Aug 2023 #42
Really? paleotn Aug 2023 #21
I don't agree...it would have been Okinawa all over again. They would not surrender and would Demsrule86 Aug 2023 #29
When such information such as that found sarisataka Aug 2023 #52
The most influential event on the boomer generation happened before we were born Walleye Aug 2023 #10
The two greatest acts of racism were dropped on Japanese innocents...war crimes, unprosecuted. Alexander Of Assyria Aug 2023 #11
The appropos day for this: lastlib Aug 2023 #12
RIP Professor Dr. Strange Aug 2023 #58
Hiroshima WestMichRad Aug 2023 #17
They Did This Song On... ProfessorGAC Aug 2023 #40
That bomb saved millions of lives both Japanese and the Allies too Botany Aug 2023 #18
Over my life time, I've wavered on this issue, but at the end of my life, I agree with you. NNadir Aug 2023 #22
BTW the American POW told the Japanese Sargent no hard feelings and forgave him but .... Botany Aug 2023 #24
One of my uncles was supposed to be in the invasion force. Archae Aug 2023 #26
My long gone Grandfather had gone into the military during WW I and since he was good @ Botany Aug 2023 #28
The bombs DID NOT save millions of lives ... TomWilm Aug 2023 #30
What a load of dung Botany Aug 2023 #38
The Notion That Japan Was Motivated By... ProfessorGAC Aug 2023 #54
Japan maybe was motivated by Soviet propaganda, but ... TomWilm Aug 2023 #60
Those Marines on Guadalcanal might have been fighting a lot ... TomWilm Aug 2023 #61
We can't undo it Marthe48 Aug 2023 #19
Some people who survived the Hiroshima atomic blast went to Nagasaki for safety. Six people were spike jones Aug 2023 #20
this AllaN01Bear Aug 2023 #25
As an aspiring scientist/physicist/engineer growing up in the 50's and 60's, usonian Aug 2023 #27
Off topic XanaDUer2 Aug 2023 #31
It is nt XanaDUer2 Aug 2023 #33
Yes. ProudMNDemocrat Aug 2023 #35
I was born 10 days before the Hiroshima bomb was dropped. MineralMan Aug 2023 #32
... roamer65 Aug 2023 #34
Plowshares Movement History stuck in the middle Aug 2023 #36
Hide thread. Iggo Aug 2023 #56
If we hadn't had this last-call opportunity to drop the bombs on Japan... hunter Aug 2023 #57
I have learned a ton from reading this thread. ShazzieB Aug 2023 #59
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