General Discussion

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)

120. The truth is a great thing and I am all for it

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:48 PM

Nov 2012

but saying women make 70% of what a man makes for the same job isn't the truth.

You can only get that stat by comparing the mean salary of all women to all men.

This means that working 35 hours is no different than working 55 hours.

Or that 15 years seniority is the same as 0.

Or that a CEO is the same as a day care worker.

I think we can rightly agree that those are different things. Yes? You can admit to that can't you?

If you account for relevant factors at most you can get about 6% difference.

And even if that were entirely attributable to sexism and not other factors that are harder to quantify (like aggressiveness in demanding raises) that is a far cry from the 30% cited by some that cannot be supported by the facts.

And if the facts show the 70 cents on the dollar for the same job claim to be untrue then it is not the Truth. Correct?

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"If you made 110 points on my test then you can afford to give some to the person who made 72" [View all] Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 OP

you cant buy groceries or pay the rent or doctor with "test points" nt msongs Nov 2012 #1

Was gonna say, "test points" don't feed closeupready Nov 2012 #134

Lets say however, you did give that 10 points to the other students.... Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #2

Excellent! Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #3

Thought that's what you were aiming for. :) Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #10

How would giving 10 points to other kids improve scores in the long run? AlexSatan Nov 2012 #100

You're wrong. School is about test scores. Learning is incidental. Occulus Nov 2012 #129

Maybe in your classroom, AlexSatan Nov 2012 #140

It's a faulty analogy... Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #137

You said nothing of the sort. GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #138

Meaning progressive taxation doesn't work in this way Flabbergasted Nov 2012 #151

That's perfect. n/t Mira Nov 2012 #142

Is he a public school teacher? MotherPetrie Nov 2012 #4

ba-zing! Care Acutely Nov 2012 #44

Exactly. In his case he got zero on the test and depends on the largesse of others. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #106

Not everyone is the same. And who is to say that the 72 point person can't help the 110 person in sammytko Nov 2012 #5

Who cares why? Lightbulb_on Nov 2012 #143

The teacher here seems to misunderstand what grades are. surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #6

That makes sense..... Michigan Alum Nov 2012 #45

Ask them how they would feel if no matter how hard they worked... sadbear Nov 2012 #7

I was working on something along these lines Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #9

Legacies get a "Gentlemen's 'C'" from one of the Ivies, and an MBA. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #115

Taxes are paid for the luxury of living in a society Horse with no Name Nov 2012 #8

Ha! Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #13

If I made a 110, I could give away 20 points Ilsa Nov 2012 #11

Weak argument, particularly from a public employee. Barack_America Nov 2012 #12

That's the maddening part Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #15

I think the answer is easy Fence rider Nov 2012 #14

Spot on Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #17

It's A Flawed Analogy ChoppinBroccoli Nov 2012 #16

Damn good Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #19

i think a better analogy is asking if grandma qazplm Nov 2012 #34

Worse than that, it's a massively fucking stupid analogy. Hissyspit Nov 2012 #56

So, you were graded 110 on that test... DreamGypsy Nov 2012 #18

Have two students start with 100% dalaigh lllama Nov 2012 #20

Try The Little Red Hen jody Nov 2012 #21

some cool answers on this thread. flying rabbit Nov 2012 #22

Indeed! Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #23

Because.... AZ Mike Nov 2012 #24

That's the crux of the issue Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #36

+1. also, test scores aren't analogous to income. income is analogous to 'life', because in a HiPointDem Nov 2012 #48

Are you saying all kids AlexSatan Nov 2012 #101

No. AZ Mike Nov 2012 #109

OK AlexSatan Nov 2012 #110

maybe something about Do you Not Feed your Kid if they don't do well JI7 Nov 2012 #25

I know, we can ask the Czar of all the Russa's what he thinks. N/T Throckmorton Nov 2012 #66

Your answer may not be the most eloquently worded on this thread but, imo, it coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #69

. A math teacher is being this political? AND stupid? I'd let his Administrators know. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #26

Tell them there is no such thing as 110%. If there was, something would be out of whack. nt bluestate10 Nov 2012 #27

I was going to say this, too, but he said "points," not "per cent." :-) WinkyDink Nov 2012 #38

It's apples and oranges. drm604 Nov 2012 #28

true. Best answer here, IMHO....they have NOTHING to do with each other Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #53

Democrats want grantcart Nov 2012 #29

The obvious retort ... Lightbulb_on Nov 2012 #145

Really? Are you kidding? That is the kind of RW strawman that we should laugh out the door. grantcart Nov 2012 #148

Whoa there highspeed... Lightbulb_on Nov 2012 #150

Why the fuck is a teacher even discussing this with a student? proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 #30

Send him to the English Deparment and introduce him to Charles Dicken's works. libdem4life Nov 2012 #31

I once held this hope. Then I retired. :-) WinkyDink Nov 2012 #39

Well, if you're talking about teaching, I salute you. 5 years did me in. libdem4life Nov 2012 #42

It isn't about handing out bonuses. LiberalAndProud Nov 2012 #32

I have a Ph.D. in English, and I know about that 10% garthranzz Nov 2012 #33

He might have given a test with 150 points as the top. The S.A.T. isn't on the 100-point scale. :-) WinkyDink Nov 2012 #40

Not true AlexSatan Nov 2012 #103

boomerang! garthranzz Nov 2012 #154

The analogy assumes the rules of the economy are as simple and clearcut as the rules of a test. JHB Nov 2012 #35

+1. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #49

What if someone hits the teacher head-on in a car crash tomorrow while he's driving to work? blue neen Nov 2012 #37

You have nailed it, my friend, in 2 short paragraphs - n/t coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #70

+1 deutsey Nov 2012 #112

Touche! smirkymonkey Nov 2012 #159

I wonder if your daughter's math teacher would allow people to have math employees do their work JVS Nov 2012 #41

I think that teachers needs to be reported to the school board. Zoeisright Nov 2012 #43

There are many good explanations here, but explaining it to the mind of a kid can be difficult. Incitatus Nov 2012 #46

Here is the answer argiel1234 Nov 2012 #47

And if one kid is handed 10,000 points for not even taking the test? Marr Nov 2012 #50

This ^^^ AlexSatan Nov 2012 #105

1% of the kids get a percentage of the points awarded to the rest of his classmates. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #107

Yep deutsey Nov 2012 #114

Students aren't born with a hundred points on the tests they take. ck4829 Nov 2012 #51

Students aren't born with 110 points on their tests, but many who run our society bulloney Nov 2012 #79

Why would it be fair for one student to do nothing and get a 1,877,995% or enough TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #52

One kid in class starts the year with a guaranteed 110 on every test LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #54

Comparing a test, where all people are treated equally to a progressive tax system used Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #55

What an idiot. Hissyspit Nov 2012 #57

How 'bout this? BouzoukiKing Nov 2012 #58

I wonder Milliesmom Nov 2012 #59

I'd be more interested in having that teacher explain his stupidity abelenkpe Nov 2012 #60

What a farce PD Turk Nov 2012 #61

Not brilliant, but remembering that I could have been faced with the same question. . . bvf Nov 2012 #62

Test points are part of you, Money is part of the world intaglio Nov 2012 #63

That's not how money works. harmonicon Nov 2012 #64

Okay, let's play with this jmowreader Nov 2012 #65

well now I am annoyed hfojvt Nov 2012 #67

The problem with the analogy is that every student is on an even playing field. jmondine Nov 2012 #68

Let's try the analogy of an entire math class XemaSab Nov 2012 #71

Every question on your test is worth half a point and every question on his test is worth one point Azathoth Nov 2012 #72

If the person who made 110 points had a clean, warm classroom and a small class in which to learn MADem Nov 2012 #73

Actually it is more like this quaker bill Nov 2012 #74

If his analogy were true (it isn't) He would be the one with 72 that gets 19 points Taitertots Nov 2012 #75

Hey teach...Too bad you're a teacher and don't realize you just describe precisely why you should Ya Basta Nov 2012 #76

This one is easy: The Straight Story Nov 2012 #77

Tell him to stop reading the spam from whistler162 Nov 2012 #78

Ask if girls should earn a score of 75% demwing Nov 2012 #80

We need to stop pushing that line 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #87

Nope, I'm fine with the truth demwing Nov 2012 #94

Pay inequality between careers definitely exists. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #113

Not what I read at all demwing Nov 2012 #118

Male and female workers who make the same choices earn nearly the same pay. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #147

The truth is a great thing and I am all for it 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #120

Just curious, which I should respond to-- demwing Nov 2012 #125

When a group that sought to prove the 30% wage gap 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #141

This message was self-deleted by its author HiPointDem Nov 2012 #156

It's a completely false analogy union_maid Nov 2012 #81

Bumper sticker logic jollyreaper2112 Nov 2012 #82

tell the teacher he gets an "A" in Math, but an "F" in social studies and history quinnox Nov 2012 #83

^^ This. Myrina Nov 2012 #136

But America is a nation. It is a society, made up of individuals. PATXgirl Nov 2012 #84

Right, because hunger and homelessness is like getting a C- Cal Carpenter Nov 2012 #85

I'd agree with that if everyone were given the same test 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #86

Is this a public school? If so where does he think his income is coming from? Puregonzo1188 Nov 2012 #88

You Don't Need An Analogy ProfessorGAC Nov 2012 #89

It is simply a false equivalency, end of story.... NotThisTime Nov 2012 #90

A more accurate analogy for the parties might be JoeyT Nov 2012 #91

He himself is being given points by others. Kaleva Nov 2012 #92

So....Is This Teacher's Behavior Now Accepted As Proper? Paladin Nov 2012 #93

What the teacher is telling your kid is amoral. reusrename Nov 2012 #95

Who's to say they didn't work just as hard? OnionPatch Nov 2012 #96

Well, you can start with the obvious, which is that academic grades can't be compared to income. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2012 #97

I love this Analogy... WaitWut Nov 2012 #98

That was funny Digit Nov 2012 #99

+1 ... Paris Hilton makes more than the teacher, so clearly, she is smarter than this teacher. JoePhilly Nov 2012 #117

Smarter *and* harder working 4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #121

Ultra-stupid analogy bongbong Nov 2012 #102

yep Locrian Nov 2012 #116

The analogy falls apart simply because some people are better at math than others slackmaster Nov 2012 #104

How did he feel giving 19 points to the banksters who cheated on the test? deutsey Nov 2012 #108

Should dumb people be allowed to eat? dawg Nov 2012 #111

As a teacher, I'll say GaYellowDawg Nov 2012 #119

The purpose of the test is to measure knowledge Lucinda Nov 2012 #122

Suppose one person inherits the 110 test points and doesn't even have to take the test. drm604 Nov 2012 #123

Yup. I was shocked at how conservative most of my teacher colleagues turned out to be. The Midway Rebel Nov 2012 #124

Shit, I'd gladly donate 25 pounds to whoever wants them! Duer 157099 Nov 2012 #126

Use logic. Logic says that if any of the premises upaloopa Nov 2012 #127

The kid with 110 points should spend time tutoring the kid with 75. Class grades aren't zero sum. Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2012 #128

um...wait...isn't that the argument they use against clean air? DonRedwood Nov 2012 #130

People who use ill fitting analogies to make arguments... Quantess Nov 2012 #131

Can the kids give away their test points? If not then the analogy is baseless. chowder66 Nov 2012 #132

Can I just inherit points from my Dad? ThoughtCriminal Nov 2012 #133

I used that one Stuckinthebush Nov 2012 #152

Because it takes nothing away from you, and increases your humanity Myrina Nov 2012 #135

In his world it would be OK to sell the extra points. GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #139

The basis of the argument is that both grade points and income are connected to MERIT and hard work GiaGiovanni Nov 2012 #144

The assumption here is that earnings are directly related to how hard you work LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #146

S'easy. Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #149

Unless I had the rest of the Class answer all of those questions FOR ME... Volaris Nov 2012 #153

+1 HiPointDem Nov 2012 #155

It must gall him that he's teaching EVERYONE ELSE'S kids and paying with HIS taxes. jtuck004 Nov 2012 #157

Ask him about plagarism rules... whistler162 Nov 2012 #158

Only if they were a Walmart heir and paid for it. nt tsuki Nov 2012 #160