General Discussion

maxsolomon

(39,257 posts)

34. But it's hard to argue that Ukraine is winning.

Wed Aug 16, 2023, 02:46 PM

Aug 2023

All the fighting is on their territory. They have suffered terrible damage to cities, to infrastructure, to Ukrainian lives, to their economy. They are nowhere near reclaiming Donetsk & Luhansk on the battlefield, let alone Crimea.

Russia doesn't appear to be running out of weapons or cannon fodder. They've mined the entire front and aren't running out of mines, ever. They still control the Black Sea & (mostly) the air. Putin is not going to be deposed. They can continue a war of attrition far longer than Ukraine can.

Finlandization may be the best Ukraine can get. It is tragic.

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In Ukraine War...Neither side is winning. Is it time to negotiate? [View all] Alexander Of Assyria Aug 2023 OP

we should be, and probably (i hope) are negotiating rampartc Aug 2023 #1

Bullshit................. Lovie777 Aug 2023 #2

It seems to me that Russia is losing. yardwork Aug 2023 #3

Russia has lost, they are only extending the war since they think there is a chance Trumpy can win FSogol Aug 2023 #4

But it's hard to argue that Ukraine is winning. maxsolomon Aug 2023 #34

That's why I phrased my response as I did. yardwork Aug 2023 #35

Who do you want to negotiate? Emile Aug 2023 #5

All Putin has to do is stand down and order his troops home. Torchlight Aug 2023 #6

The Ruble is tanking and Russia is losing. sarcasmo Aug 2023 #7

Exactly CanonRay Aug 2023 #15

I am as sensitive to any here about Russian propaganda, but read the opinion piece--it touches on hlthe2b Aug 2023 #8

Ukraine is giving it their all - we should do what we can to keep helping SalamanderSleeps Aug 2023 #9

Well, coming from you, I gained the impression you wanted Ukraine to surrender ages ago. Emrys Aug 2023 #10

Impressions can be in error, difficult to give up. Alexander Of Assyria Aug 2023 #16

Impressions reinforced by repetition tend to prove accurate. n/t Emrys Aug 2023 #19

Nothing preventing Putin from ordering a withdrawal Kaleva Aug 2023 #11

Only if Putin negotiates in good faith, which so far he refuses to do. They are not at stalemate ... marble falls Aug 2023 #12

Putin can not be trusted, that's the quandary with negotiations, Alexander Of Assyria Aug 2023 #17

So the response to that is to place the onus on the country that was invaded to negotiate a peace. BannonsLiver Oct 2023 #40

Ukraine is winning by not being overrun by their large neighbor. It is up to the Ukrainian Chainfire Aug 2023 #13

Ukraine negotiated with Russia in 1994 Clash City Rocker Aug 2023 #14

Negotiate what? How much of Ukraine Russia gets to keep? Fuck that shit. Wingus Dingus Aug 2023 #18

The answer is right there sarisataka Aug 2023 #20

No. Sky Jewels Aug 2023 #21

Came here to say just as much to find out you said it first. Efilroft Sul Aug 2023 #23

Agree. Sky Jewels Aug 2023 #26

When I see people on the left agreeing with the talking points from the right (and Russia)... Efilroft Sul Aug 2023 #27

Yep. It's like they're leftists from the 1950s and Sky Jewels Aug 2023 #29

Here's an article about a certain gullible element of the left getting hoodwinked. Sky Jewels Aug 2023 #30

Thanks, Sky Jewels. Efilroft Sul Aug 2023 #31

Ha ha, yes. Sky Jewels Aug 2023 #33

What weapons is NATO holding out on? maxsolomon Aug 2023 #37

Missiles, yes. Efilroft Sul Aug 2023 #38

F-16s are still on the needed list unc70 Aug 2023 #39

It should be up to Ukraine, nobody should be pressing them to negotiate. Pompoy Aug 2023 #22

What's the weather like in Moscow? NT anamnua Aug 2023 #24

Stalemate does not necessarily create a reason to negotiate: WWI comes to mind andym Aug 2023 #25

Putin and Medvedev need to be bombed back to the stone ages. Initech Aug 2023 #28

Would Czechoslovakia be enough to appease Putin? Fozzledick Aug 2023 #32

no. fuck anyone who says negotiate Recycle_Guru Aug 2023 #36