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AverageOldGuy

(3,861 posts)
Sat Aug 19, 2023, 11:28 PM Aug 2023

The 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump [View all]

As has been pointed out in other DU entries as well as in a few other opinion sites, there is a body of opinion that Trump is disqualified from office by the 14th Amendment.

The 14th is one of three post-Civil War amendments that have an interesting and some would say "checkered" history:
-- the 13th abolished slavery (but did it really?).
-- the 14th cleaned up a lot of Constitutional vagaries -- who is a citizen, rights of citizens, rights before the law, etc.
-- the 15th which prohibited denying citizens the right to vote because of their race (of course, the old Jim Crow laws worked around that and now Republicans are re-instating Jim Crow, just by another name).

This month, former federal judge Michael Luttig and law professor Laurence Tribe co-authored an Atlantic magazine piece arguing that the 14th Amendment prohibits Trump -- and a host of others -- from ever holding office. Here's a link to the article, though it may be behind a paywall.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/

In their article, Luttig and Tribe give a lot of credit to a forthcoming article in the Univ. of Penn. Law Review, a pre-publication copy of which is available in PDF -- all 126 pages of it.

Here is what Luttig and Tribe say:

We were immensely gratified to see that a richly researched article soon to be published in an academic journal has recently come to the same conclusion that we had and is attracting well-deserved attention outside a small circle of scholars—including Jeffrey Sonnenfeld and Anjani Jain of the Yale School of Management, whose encouragement inspired us to write this piece. The evidence laid out by the legal scholars William Baude and Michael Stokes Paulsen in “The Sweep and Force of Section Three,” available as a preprint, is momentous. Sooner or later, it will influence, if not determine, the course of American constitutional history—and American history itself.


I tried to post a link to the U. of Penn. Law Review article, however, it is a looooong URL, so, here's a link to an abstract of the law review article that has a link to the PDF at the top of the page. If you don't want to read all 126 pages, read the introduction that precedes the table of contents then go to page 124 and read the last two pages. I'm over halfway through the law review article and while a lot of legal writing is deadly reading, this one is clear, to the point, and makes sense.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4532751https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4532751
]

Maybe if we started pounding on our members of Congress . . .

Meanwhile, the fact of the Atlantic article and the Law Review article may suggest that something is stirring below the surface.




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The 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump [View all] AverageOldGuy Aug 2023 OP
Wish it were that simple. Doubt that will prevent trump from taking office IF Silent Type Aug 2023 #1
He can't take office if he can't run for it dweller Aug 2023 #2
How do you propose preventing him from running if he's not convicted? Silent Type Aug 2023 #3
Read the 126 page law review paper. It is not a "weak amendment" WheelWalker Aug 2023 #8
Don't have any questions because-- in my uneducated opinion-- it ain't Silent Type Aug 2023 #9
I see you are determined WheelWalker Aug 2023 #13
Trump isn't the only one who NJCher Aug 2023 #16
Any Trump run WOULD be another coup attempt, just using the trappings... Beartracks Aug 2023 #11
He already is running for it Polybius Aug 2023 #31
Reality says otherwise. Nt Fiendish Thingy Aug 2023 #4
See my #21. wnylib Aug 2023 #22
One would THINK so... B.See Aug 2023 #5
I read the introduction and the last 2 pages scipan Aug 2023 #6
The law review paper is a MUST read... WheelWalker Aug 2023 #7
"pounding members of Congress" to do what? Effete Snob Aug 2023 #10
I guess call Congress right now and tell them something. yardwork Aug 2023 #36
We made an ask about that for the new week's Call to Action email. calimary Aug 2023 #12
This is very helpful NJCher Aug 2023 #18
Really? Well, thank you! calimary Aug 2023 #32
Damn straight ! I couldn't agree with you more, comrade. Thank you! WheelWalker Aug 2023 #26
Anybody who wants to - by all means, use it! Just direct it at YOUR reps. calimary Aug 2023 #34
I'm Oregon, myself. Down here in Oakland, north Douglas Co. WheelWalker Aug 2023 #43
We're in CD-5. Not far from the banks of the Willamette. calimary Aug 2023 #58
A simpler argument Tarzanrock Aug 2023 #14
Welcome to DU, Tarzanrock! calimary Aug 2023 #35
We're kind of in a bind though ecstatic Aug 2023 #15
Our Constitution is weak and without teeth? yardwork Aug 2023 #37
Indeed it does. Aussie105 Aug 2023 #17
The only ones left are trump supporters. NJCher Aug 2023 #19
I think reality is against a 14th Amendment solution AverageOldGuy Aug 2023 #20
According to Laurence Tribe, wnylib Aug 2023 #21
If the process unfolds that way, beware Fiendish Thingy Aug 2023 #27
I have not heard of any SoS claiming a disqualification, either. wnylib Aug 2023 #29
Ah, but Effete Snob Aug 2023 #42
Please read and become informed. WheelWalker Aug 2023 #25
Have you ever read the U.S. Constitution? yardwork Aug 2023 #39
I have read the Constitution. Have you read the law review paper? WheelWalker Aug 2023 #45
I'm not qualified to understand a law review paper. yardwork Aug 2023 #47
Post removed Post removed Aug 2023 #50
Problem is... I don't think he was charged with sedition or the like. Piratedog Aug 2023 #23
Neither criminal charges, nor a conviction are necessary. Section 3 is self-executing. WheelWalker Aug 2023 #24
Those are theories and opinions, not connected with the real world Fiendish Thingy Aug 2023 #28
+1 Effete Snob Aug 2023 #40
Don't forget the Federalist Society Zeitghost Aug 2023 #55
So anyone, at any time, can be accused of sedition and barred from office? yardwork Aug 2023 #38
As a candidate, Barack Obama said... Effete Snob Aug 2023 #41
There is quite a bit of authoritarian thinking in the country now. yardwork Aug 2023 #48
Have you read the law review paper? Your questions considered and answered. WheelWalker Aug 2023 #44
I wouldn't understand it. Could you explain in plain English? yardwork Aug 2023 #49
Post removed Post removed Aug 2023 #51
"Baude and Paulsen are two of the most prominent conservative constitutional scholars..." gulliver Aug 2023 #30
If crazy people want him to run, he should be able to Polybius Aug 2023 #33
None of that counts for squat BannonsLiver Aug 2023 #46
It depends Effete Snob Aug 2023 #53
waste of time without a legal conviction, and it would set a dangerous precedent without one Celerity Aug 2023 #52
kicking and recommending Recycle_Guru Aug 2023 #54
I'm with you. I wonder who we have here at DU? triron Aug 2023 #56
Ha-Cha-Cha!!! We wrote about this at our Postcard Party today! calimary Aug 2023 #57
California Gov. Newsome is going to seek to have TFG stricken from the 2024 ballot LetMyPeopleVote Aug 2023 #59
republicons have no regard for our constitution or our laws. spanone Aug 2023 #60
Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is self executing but not self enforcing LetMyPeopleVote Aug 2023 #61
I read and downloaded the article cited above. LetMyPeopleVote Aug 2023 #62
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