General Discussion

RainDog

(28,784 posts)

70. some people argue the southern states issues are b/c the south

Wed Jan 18, 2012, 01:39 AM

Jan 2012

remained an agarian society while the rest of the nation underwent industrialization and developed a "worker's party" sensibility.

there's a difference b/t economic populism and the sort of 19th and early 20th c. union/worker issues that industrialized parts of the nation faced.

haven't looked at your link yet but I will.

but that idea - that the south wasn't part of the process of creating a "worker's consciousness" that most American states and European nations went through seems to tie to the Russian lag in industrialization compared to western Europe, too.

I mean, Stalin's big deal, other than killing those who disagreed with him, was industrializing Russia.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] RainDog Jan 2012 OP

How would they hold public office if shot? 47of74 Jan 2012 #1

that was the part I was saying in frustration :) RainDog Jan 2012 #3

Great questions, I ask myself the same things just1voice Jan 2012 #2

I know there are lots of democrats in the south RainDog Jan 2012 #6

And what of the northern slave traders? unc70 Jan 2012 #73

Why should I have to immigrate? Fawke Em Jan 2012 #115

you don't have to RainDog Jan 2012 #117

You can take your regional bigotry against the South and leave anytime MicaelS Jan 2012 #122

thanks for your concern RainDog Jan 2012 #125

Those people who are stealing elections from the democrats WCGreen Jan 2012 #31

what about ""those democrats" who are allowing elections to be stolen by doing 0 about that? nt msongs Jan 2012 #38

Thank you for the link! It is a great article. Luminous Animal Jan 2012 #63

"Honest majority opinions" MicaelS Jan 2012 #4

Simply because the Founders disapproved of something doesn't make it wrong. white_wolf Jan 2012 #8

honest is what polls indicate are the opinions of the American people. RainDog Jan 2012 #11

gawdamn yeehaw Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #5

Sometimes it seems it wasn't. However, thinking about it, Cleita Jan 2012 #7

Not to mention all the sane white people stuck in the South. white_wolf Jan 2012 #9

people could move RainDog Jan 2012 #13

not all whites are racists RainDog Jan 2012 #18

I know that but look at history. Cleita Jan 2012 #46

True RainDog Jan 2012 #53

Speaking of welfare. Newtie, the toadman, said Barak Obama has issued more food stamps than Cleita Jan 2012 #55

such a statement also ignores Paulson's bank bail out RainDog Jan 2012 #60

So you think all emilyg Jan 2012 #27

All? That's a pretty broad brush. Cleita Jan 2012 #51

After the blacks were freed we should have let the South go. Zalatix Jan 2012 #10

You would have a lot of immigrants coming from the South, then. white_wolf Jan 2012 #12

But those blacks could not buy property in many places unc70 Jan 2012 #75

They would have just reinstated slavery and Cleita Jan 2012 #52

I was wondering that last night. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #14

If President Lincoln had survived after the civil war I think we might have mucifer Jan 2012 #20

Good Point! JDPriestly Jan 2012 #111

Yes. That's what prompted this post RainDog Jan 2012 #21

You mean Confederate states like Indiana and New Hampshire? Hugabear Jan 2012 #69

yeah. If you read my OP, I note this isn't about a specific region RainDog Jan 2012 #72

Seemed pretty specific to me Hugabear Jan 2012 #74

since I've repeatedly said the post was in frustration b/c of the S.C. deal with Gringrich RainDog Jan 2012 #76

It would have been better to have won the War of 1812 and lost the Civil War FarCenter Jan 2012 #15

Look at post #16. The US of Canada and Jesusland lunatica Jan 2012 #17

Maybe the red states in the west/midwest should be returned to various Native Americans RainDog Jan 2012 #24

Then there's this map of how the US could look. lunatica Jan 2012 #16

I don't think that's representative RainDog Jan 2012 #23

Here's what one former Soviet guy predicted - I don't think he's right either RainDog Jan 2012 #30

Here's another version RainDog Jan 2012 #33

Close, but with a few differences kurt_cagle Jan 2012 #112

About 80% of Canadians are Christian. Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #50

Um, no laundry_queen Jan 2012 #86

77% is "about 80%". And Catholics are, indeed, Christians (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #88

people are not going to "get" what you're talking about RainDog Jan 2012 #108

My personal views on this are that the North wasn't hard enough on the South. white_wolf Jan 2012 #19

They should have executed Andrew Johnson, too RainDog Jan 2012 #22

They should have executed the vice president who remained loyal? RZM Jan 2012 #34

he was pro-slavery RainDog Jan 2012 #37

So that's your case for execution? RZM Jan 2012 #47

that was my frustration and hyperbole talking RainDog Jan 2012 #56

Well that's a different issue RZM Jan 2012 #61

some people argue the southern states issues are b/c the south RainDog Jan 2012 #70

Well RZM Jan 2012 #71

I'm out of my element on the Civil War, I'll admit RZM Jan 2012 #44

Nelson Mandela would disagree with vengeance Kennah Jan 2012 #54

For every action theres a reaction. William769 Jan 2012 #25

Yes krispos42 Jan 2012 #26

good argument RainDog Jan 2012 #45

Have you read Harry Turtledove's alternate history novels? Odin2005 Jan 2012 #68

Yup, and I have to admit he paints a realistic possibility krispos42 Jan 2012 #82

Harry Turtledove has a whole series of alternate history novels-- eridani Jan 2012 #118

Good question Prophet 451 Jan 2012 #28

I've seen that film RainDog Jan 2012 #41

I think shooting them would have precluded their holding public office cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #29

yeah, I already addressed this RainDog Jan 2012 #35

I share your frustration. Just thought it was funny. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #39

agreed RainDog Jan 2012 #42

Perhaps we should have done forced integration in 1865 Kennah Jan 2012 #32

We pretty much did. Then we got tired of it and left cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #36

So I lose my home because I live in a Confederate State? SaintPete Jan 2012 #40

You could continue to live there RainDog Jan 2012 #43

so, "ghettoize" the southern states and dump the west on the "Indians" ??? WTF? Kali Jan 2012 #48

+10 emilyg Jan 2012 #58

No. I don't think you really get the point of the post RainDog Jan 2012 #59

by all means protect white privilege RainDog Jan 2012 #62

When the OP is about kicking out the states that have the majority of the black population JoeyT Jan 2012 #116

Fascinating kurt_cagle Jan 2012 #132

+ billions cordelia Jan 2012 #81

YES and since Washington and Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves their bodies should have been dug up Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #49

Not necessarily. But, it was worth keeping it to get rid of slavery. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #57

I think of Jack Nicholson MFrohike Jan 2012 #64

Democrats began to lose the south with the election of FDR RainDog Jan 2012 #67

And? MFrohike Jan 2012 #78

I didn't say the south is the source of all evil RainDog Jan 2012 #79

Haha MFrohike Jan 2012 #80

Oh gawd, not this fucking shit again... Hugabear Jan 2012 #65

+1000 ellisonz Jan 2012 #91

Reconstruction was not radical enough. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #66

No. Hawkowl Jan 2012 #77

No Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #83

I think that was the big debate before the Civil War RZM Jan 2012 #89

I think you are right Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #92

Let's try a different counterfactual here, shall we? Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #84

Very interesting. Something to ponder. nt Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #87

You never hear that one at all here RZM Jan 2012 #90

No, but you do hear a lot of "we'd be better off without the South" Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #93

I agree that it's bullshit RZM Jan 2012 #94

Nicely put. Thank you. cordelia Jan 2012 #95

well, we could ask about that one too RainDog Jan 2012 #97

Do you know which side Britain supported in the Civil War? RZM Jan 2012 #98

yes, I know. because of economic interests in the cotton industry RainDog Jan 2012 #99

That and great power maneuvering RZM Jan 2012 #103

except that's not what I said RainDog Jan 2012 #106

ha Kali Jan 2012 #130

Have you seen PBS' series "The Civil War" by Ken Burns? Honeycombe8 Jan 2012 #85

The Confederacy was not worth saving... YoungDemCA Jan 2012 #96

You suggesting a "Final Solution" should have occurred? lynne Jan 2012 #100

actually, no. that's not what I said RainDog Jan 2012 #105

The existence of both the CSA and the Union would be an impossibility. chrisa Jan 2012 #101

Oh lemme see. . . BigDemVoter Jan 2012 #102

wouldn't this topic be more suited for American History Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #104

I think this is a far more complex question than a yes/no response... Fearless Jan 2012 #107

Literalism is also a problem RainDog Jan 2012 #110

Yes. It was worth it. Taverner Jan 2012 #109

The larger context is that, without the South, there'd be no Dukes of Hazard Bucky Jan 2012 #113

This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #120

Good plan. JoeyT Jan 2012 #114

I've mulled that question over for years. hifiguy Jan 2012 #119

The CSA would be easy to imagine; the USA would be harder Proud Public Servant Jan 2012 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #123

guess you sort of prove my point RainDog Jan 2012 #126

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #127

lol RainDog Jan 2012 #128

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #129

I suppose we all want to isolate ourselves from those we disagree with... LanternWaste Jan 2012 #124

not according to this information RainDog Jan 2012 #131