General Discussion

Time for change

(13,737 posts)

25. Like a lot of other things

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 11:45 PM

Nov 2012

Many people regard this stuff as a wacko "conspiracy theory" (probably without looking into what evidence there is to support it), while many others (like the good majority of people who are involved with election integrity organizations) take it very seriously.

An idea should not be judged by how it sounds, but by an analysis of what evidence there is to support it.

I don't know why this has not been investigated in much more depth. Well, we see what happened to Michael Connell when he was getting ready to testify about it.

Why on earth do we rely on machines that cannot be verified to count our vote? It's like turning our elections over to anonymous people who we don't know, to go into a dark room to count our votes and tell us the results, and we're supposed to accept it. The bottom line is that there is way too many opportunities to steal elections and not enough concern about it. Does it take a wacko to believe that if elections CAN be stolen, some will try to do it?

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Hmmm� Why Was Karl Rove So Adamant that Romney Not Concede Ohio? [View all] Time for change Nov 2012 OP

Chaff ... Scuba Nov 2012 #1

Rove's Man in the Middle: ORCA RobertEarl Nov 2012 #27

OK, I could be wrong here but, PotatoChip Nov 2012 #125

You make a good case RobertEarl Nov 2012 #126

I think Anonymous claim regarding hacking of ORCA is true. Tutonic Nov 2012 #2

ORCA was a system to get out the vote, having nothing to do with vote counting. After 8Pm you can't robinlynne Nov 2012 #5

But what if ORCA wasn't merely a GOTV program? I'm not a conspiracy nut but I catbyte Nov 2012 #23

We don't have to be "conpriracy nuts" to believe rove would Cha Nov 2012 #29

The entire vote count in Ohio is owned a company owned by Romney and Bain Capitral friends. robinlynne Nov 2012 #33

A mild but important caveat. hedda_foil Nov 2012 #130

How do you know that? Because Karl Rove said so? sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #64

"The truth is we know nothing about our own electoral system because it has been hijacked..." CrispyQ Nov 2012 #85

Agreed, but Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #102

Do we know for a fact that ORCA really collapsed? Time for change Nov 2012 #6

There's a thread up about how ORCA failed. (updated) Cerridwen Nov 2012 #18

orca's claimed use was quackery tiny elvis Nov 2012 #28

I read the same femrap Nov 2012 #48

It did collapse. Here is some info on that: sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #93

If this is true, then they are heroes who will probably never receive the full credit. Baitball Blogger Nov 2012 #11

given Anonymous is so technically expert, I don't see why they wouldn't Swagman Nov 2012 #22

A couple of weeks femrap Nov 2012 #56

But we were just lucky this time in that Anonymous is on our side. It's only a matter of time Squinch Nov 2012 #100

The odds are against it... femrap Nov 2012 #121

But Republicans, it seems, are investing in voting machines. Which means they see the Squinch Nov 2012 #123

I believe that femrap Nov 2012 #134

It's a nonsense word my family uses to describe the expression in your eyes when Squinch Nov 2012 #140

If they are so "technically expert", why is the letter so techically inept? n/t RomneyLies Nov 2012 #136

Thom Hartman was talking about this today dflprincess Nov 2012 #30

wow. He does think it is anonymous. surprising. robinlynne Nov 2012 #47

Scary and awesome. Whew! lexw Nov 2012 #96

thanks for posting this marions ghost Nov 2012 #111

Then Anonymous should have no difficulty posting documentation that proves this point BlueStreak Nov 2012 #106

2004 was close enough to steal, not so much in 2012 liberal N proud Nov 2012 #3

In 2004, exit polls femrap Nov 2012 #53

I don't know if it was close enough to steal democrattotheend Nov 2012 #63

The 2004 mainstream translation of the polls may have said Bush was ahead arikara Nov 2012 #101

I meant the polls right before the election in 2004. democrattotheend Nov 2012 #105

why did Kerry concede? samsingh Nov 2012 #124

A lot more is known about the extent of the cheating now than it was on Election Day 2004 Time for change Nov 2012 #127

I think they used it, but their polling sucked... Barack_America Nov 2012 #4

Compelling stuff, from a dedicated skeptic. Robb Nov 2012 #7

Election protection advocates had a federal judge watching Ohio this year. They sued a few robinlynne Nov 2012 #8

I didn't hear about that Time for change Nov 2012 #10

will find one for you. The Ohio SOS put "patches" on the software a few days before the election. the robinlynne Nov 2012 #35

Husted bailed on Rove. He wasn't taking Federal rap for Rove in a losing effort. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #83

Yes, and from what I've read, he went home tblue37 Nov 2012 #90

Yes. He did not want to be anywhere near his office if Rove decided to move without him. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #91

Here: If you go to the link, there are 4 or 5 more links to read about it, within the article. robinlynne Nov 2012 #37

Thank you -- very interesting Time for change Nov 2012 #41

Yes it is! robinlynne Nov 2012 #43

Bob's attempts femrap Nov 2012 #55

My thoughts as well CitizenPatriot Nov 2012 #110

tinfoilhat bullshit. nt RomneyLies Nov 2012 #9

BS? Dude, accept the evidence. TheAmbivalante Nov 2012 #81

Nate Silver would say, "yes, they can be off by 8 points" RomneyLies Nov 2012 #84

When you assume... TheAmbivalante Nov 2012 #132

Rasmussen and Gallup were both off by wide margins RomneyLies Nov 2012 #139

You're obviously AGAINST investigation marions ghost Nov 2012 #145

Why Indeed? HangOnKids Nov 2012 #158

You forgot to add one... LanternWaste Nov 2012 #162

Wow, must have struck a nerve. Two conspiracy theorists I have on ignore have responded RomneyLies Nov 2012 #163

Bev Harris is not a welcome reference on DU and I would be careful quoting her Godhumor Nov 2012 #128

I don't care if she's Idi Amin TheAmbivalante Nov 2012 #131

Ohio does seem to have been stolen for Bush in 2004. StrictlyRockers Nov 2012 #12

I think it might have been rigged but not stolen democrattotheend Nov 2012 #61

The Ohio exit polls indicated a Kerry lead of over 4 percentage points in 2004 Time for change Nov 2012 #135

Blackwell and Rove are pure slime running down a rusty pipe. Auntie Bush Nov 2012 #13

Don't worry, it will be investigated MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 #14

OUTSTANDING post 7wo7rees Nov 2012 #15

maybe rove was acting to look good to his $$ - "look, Im trying to save the election" nt msongs Nov 2012 #16

Most of this makes sense to me. Is it regarded as paranoia? Why would Congress... Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #17

Like a lot of other things Time for change Nov 2012 #25

The amazing thing is that if this was happening in Russia or Venezuela go west young man Nov 2012 #32

You're exactly right that that is the kind of thinking that empowers a Karl Rove Time for change Nov 2012 #38

Sorry to have just realized that you did mention the voting discrepancy of 2004. go west young man Nov 2012 #67

Important observation, Go West. iemitsu Nov 2012 #99

TFC, in 04 we blindly accepted that diebold rtassi Nov 2012 #87

Yes, there are so many things about this that are so difficult to understand Time for change Nov 2012 #118

Thanks for this post. Hopefully it will serve to dispel some of the extreme naivete Zorra Nov 2012 #19

another great read boomer55 Nov 2012 #20

Fascinating read. Thank you. K&R ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #21

Rove knew he was fucked jmowreader Nov 2012 #24

Makes me wonder if femrap Nov 2012 #58

It does not matter if this is true or not Pakid Nov 2012 #26

Agree. There's no way to make the compuers reliable. People will not trust the vote. patrice Nov 2012 #34

There is nothing wrong or "backward" about requiring paper ballots.... reformist2 Nov 2012 #40

Yes, we need a much better system than we have Time for change Nov 2012 #44

I'm in OH... femrap Nov 2012 #59

KICK! patrice Nov 2012 #31

I think that this is what happened in 2004. yardwork Nov 2012 #36

Obama's team? hell no. the election protection advocates took steps robinlynne Nov 2012 #45

It's infuriating that the Democrats aren't investigating this. yardwork Nov 2012 #50

agreed. on both points. I like your election posts, yardwork. robinlynne Nov 2012 #52

Thanks! I don't know much about the election fraud, but I'm sure it happened. yardwork Nov 2012 #73

and when Duers believe "Obama took care of it", that means more election theft in the future.... robinlynne Nov 2012 #54

Obama said in his book he doesn't believe the "conspiracy theory" about elections being stolen. loudsue Nov 2012 #60

I hope that Obama is just saying that and meanwhile is actually taking steps to prevent fraud. yardwork Nov 2012 #75

no he is not taking steps. He nominated not one Commissioner to head the EAC in 4 years, the federal robinlynne Nov 2012 #114

That's crazy. That's irresponsible. Or worse. yardwork Nov 2012 #115

Believe me, Husted femrap Nov 2012 #62

Let's Explore The Motivations Of A Husted...... global1 Nov 2012 #70

Ken Blackwell femrap Nov 2012 #94

That we even wonder about it is the real tragedy sellitman Nov 2012 #39

much more plausible than the anonymous thingy arely staircase Nov 2012 #42

In the back of my mind, Obama's Justice Department should dig DEEP on this. Wouldn't it be just silvershadow Nov 2012 #46

Lots of debate, but one things for certain. JEB Nov 2012 #49

Knowing Rove like we do, I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is not a plausible scenario. nt. OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #51

It made for good TV... SomethingFishy Nov 2012 #57

I was afraid about them stealing votes in PA & OH Justice4All1 Nov 2012 #65

I Thought I'd Add This Link To Ailes Comments On Rove's Meltdown.... global1 Nov 2012 #69

Any doubters should go back and watch Rove meltdown. Very suspicious. joanbarnes Nov 2012 #66

Bravo - hope you appreciate reposts... JackRiddler Nov 2012 #68

Thank you Time for change Nov 2012 #119

Rove BlueinOhio Nov 2012 #71

Everyone here is forgetting We_Must_Organize Nov 2012 #72

And, despite all the evidence here and in 2004 IDemo Nov 2012 #74

I think you're right that it is more important to the PTB of both parties to support Time for change Nov 2012 #79

By "nothing is going to be done about this", I mean by elected officials and the DoJ IDemo Nov 2012 #82

great find pipewrench Nov 2012 #76

THIS IS FUCKING HUGE! chuckstevens Nov 2012 #77

A brilliant post malaise Nov 2012 #78

Hmm, Maybe Because It's Almost Impossible to Get Elected Iggy Nov 2012 #80

possible to have safe computer voting Phillip McCleod Nov 2012 #86

As far as conspiracy theories go, this one is well supported. Buzz Clik Nov 2012 #88

Lie detector my... DirtyDawg Nov 2012 #89

Most Excellent Post !!! - K & R !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #92

K & R Change has come Nov 2012 #95

This is very frustrating: lexw Nov 2012 #97

Excellent synopsis. bleever Nov 2012 #98

Thank you bleever Time for change Nov 2012 #116

This all seems to lend credibility to the claim by Anonymous. NorthCarolina Nov 2012 #103

Maybe, ... PrMaine Nov 2012 #156

Karl Rove made the changes himself in 2004 krobar659 Nov 2012 #104

Kick and Rec Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #107

Maybe the Democrats have finally hired some rat unfuckers Bucky Nov 2012 #108

Thom Hartmann on the Subject PrMaine Nov 2012 #109

Thom Hartman is usually reasonable, but I consider him WAY over the top on this tinfoil nuttery n/t RomneyLies Nov 2012 #122

Why? Care to counter what he says? Just saying I don't agree sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #129

Please elaborate PrMaine Nov 2012 #137

Giving air to this is no different than Limbaugh giving air to Birtherism RomneyLies Nov 2012 #138

That is Not a Reason PrMaine Nov 2012 #141

I have a rational reaction to the idea RomneyLies Nov 2012 #142

A Ragional Reaction that Cannot be Explained Rationally PrMaine Nov 2012 #143

There is no evidence to support the claim RomneyLies Nov 2012 #144

No PrMaine Nov 2012 #146

Even a hypothesis will have some evidence upon which it is based RomneyLies Nov 2012 #147

Evidence Time for change Nov 2012 #148

And every bit of that is as worthleas as the bullshit the Birthers cite n/t RomneyLies Nov 2012 #149

Your method of arguing is simply to assert your opinion without giving any reason for it Time for change Nov 2012 #151

Go look at the shit the birthers cite RomneyLies Nov 2012 #152

Here, here! PrMaine Nov 2012 #155

Well He Said It! We Should Just Believe It! HangOnKids Nov 2012 #160

Your 'evidence'. randome Nov 2012 #153

. Time for change Nov 2012 #154

Call it what you will PrMaine Nov 2012 #161

Evidence has always been there for election theft & it's never been dealt with. Will this finally mother earth Nov 2012 #112

Rove was expecting the Ohio central computers to crash... paparush Nov 2012 #113

K/R. Window Nov 2012 #117

My first thought when I heard he said don't concede was Rove thought he could steal the votes during pam4water Nov 2012 #120

He figured Husted and Kasuck would fix it n/t doc03 Nov 2012 #133

This kind of evidence-free speculation usually comes from watching too many dramas on TV. randome Nov 2012 #150

kick Zorra Nov 2012 #157

IMO Mr Dixon Nov 2012 #159

The simplest explanation is always the best zappaman Nov 2012 #164

+1 n/t tammywammy Nov 2012 #166

The simplest explanation is NOT always the best. Time for change Nov 2012 #169

Pay no attention: begin_within Nov 2012 #165

TREASON. lifebiomedguru Nov 2012 #167

Welcome to DU! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #168

AHA...makes me dream that Obama Team read our post about discounting the most Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2012 #170