General Discussion

JohnSJ

(92,582 posts) Wed Dec 20, 2023, 08:25 AM Dec 2023

No way will THIS Supreme Court uphold the Colorado Supreme Court decision. I think we are deluding ourselves [View all]

to think that trump will be removed from the ballot.

I suspect they will rule that trump has not found guilty of an insurrection, and therefore will remain on the ballot.

I also think the decision will happen very quickly and it will be 6-3.

At the same time I think this court will also rule that trump is not immune from prosecution.

Because of the way the republican primaries are structured, all or nothing, it is almost a sure thing that he will be their nominee.

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No way will THIS Supreme Court uphold the Colorado Supreme Court decision. I think we are deluding ourselves [View all] JohnSJ Dec 2023 OP

You don't have confidence in these "strict constitutionalists" strictly adhering to the constitution? Hmm. bullimiami Dec 2023 #1

Nope, and their ruling won't even touch that because they will say he has never been found guilty of an insurrection. JohnSJ Dec 2023 #5

The Constitution doesn't say gab13by13 Dec 2023 #13

That may be, but I think that is exactly how the 6 right wing judges will rule, that he hasn't been found guilty of an JohnSJ Dec 2023 #17

I disagree, gab13by13 Dec 2023 #28

I think that is exactly what they will rule on, due process. Trump hasn't been found guilty of an insurrection, JohnSJ Dec 2023 #46

Yah I read one take like that. Something about section 5 of the 14th amendment... AnrothElf Dec 2023 #62

I think you're spot on r.e. Section 5. maxsolomon Dec 2023 #135

I don't read section 5 applying to section 3 Buckeyeblue Dec 2023 #166

But it does insist on due process FBaggins Dec 2023 #30

Section 3 is not a punishment, it's an additional qualification. Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2023 #43

A distinction without a difference FBaggins Dec 2023 #80

It's clear you haven't read the decision. Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2023 #82

I find that to be the case with many of those posting... And this is not the topic to hlthe2b Dec 2023 #167

The age or citizenship question can be resolved without a court case... brooklynite Dec 2023 #125

Exactly correct - as well as citizenship FBaggins Dec 2023 #128

I looked up the text of the 14th Amendment and it certainly does not specify conviction. Lonestarblue Dec 2023 #39

Lonestarblue......... Upthevibe Dec 2023 #63

Agreed............................ Lovie777 Dec 2023 #70

I also note the 14th says nothing about running or appearing on a ballot... CaptainTruth Dec 2023 #101

IOW an election-denying State official can make the same arbitrary judgment about Joe Biden? brooklynite Dec 2023 #126

Joe Biden hasn't done anything to violate the 14th Amendment. Lonestarblue Dec 2023 #146

Seriously! The attempt by some to turn a months-long intense review of a clear record Prairie Gates Dec 2023 #147

What CO election-denying state official was that? dpibel Dec 2023 #153

I'm saying there are 49 other States... brooklynite Dec 2023 #162

" the same arbitrary judgment" dpibel Dec 2023 #163

Yes, I consider the Colorado decision to be "arbitrary" brooklynite Dec 2023 #164

It's not a criminal matter dpibel Dec 2023 #168

I think you are missing something. The CO lower court judge essentially flashman13 Dec 2023 #100

No Conviction Needed, not even a criminal charge Prendy Dec 2023 #110

You may be right here. BUT bluestarone Dec 2023 #144

So called "strict constitutionalists" have violated that principle too often to take seriously msfiddlestix Dec 2023 #84

This court is highly transactional, not scholarly getagrip_already Dec 2023 #98

One would think so they have a powerful interest in finding him indelible, but they seem to defy that logic msfiddlestix Dec 2023 #169

Would the Colorado decision keep Congressional insurrectionists Emile Dec 2023 #2

Was wondering that as well Emile. Duncanpup Dec 2023 #4

If that was the argument, yes, but I think the SC will argue that he has not been found guilty of an insurrection, so JohnSJ Dec 2023 #6

I hate to say it, but I think secretly the Congressional insurrectionists will be their reason he stays on the ballot. Emile Dec 2023 #9

The "aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" part should disqualify the entire Republican party. sop Dec 2023 #55

Works for me. MOMFUDSKI Dec 2023 #10

Are there any congressional insurrectionists donheld Dec 2023 #157

I'm thinking if the SC rules with Colorado their ruling will be nationwide. Emile Dec 2023 #165

Tired of the "due process" argument Walleye Dec 2023 #3

I just think that this RW majority SC will rule on that basis. JohnSJ Dec 2023 #8

They are saying don't disqualify him, beat him at the ballot box Walleye Dec 2023 #21

Many folks here said no way he would ever be indicted malaise Dec 2023 #7

This isn't the issue. The issue is should he be on the ballot for a crime he hasn't been found guilty of? In fact, JohnSJ Dec 2023 #12

The Constitution does not say gab13by13 Dec 2023 #15

He has publicly claimed his coup; he claims his goons are political prisoner malaise Dec 2023 #20

YES! LOL, REMINDER: Many saying that the USSC will definitely overturn this decision Prairie Gates Dec 2023 #27

Was a marvelous thing to behold - THIS! 😀 malaise Dec 2023 #31

These effers make pretzels look straight. CrispyQ Dec 2023 #54

LOL malaise Dec 2023 #86

Occam's Razor gab13by13 Dec 2023 #32

All depends on whose money influences them best... MiHale Dec 2023 #11

Maybe I worded it incorrectly. I think they will rule he is NOT immune from prosecution for a crime. In other words, JohnSJ Dec 2023 #14

I needed a better coffee fix. MiHale Dec 2023 #16

Me too JohnSJ Dec 2023 #18

So Clarence gets a new house and a free vacation in Paris. 3Hotdogs Dec 2023 #52

The fascist court will never in a million years rule gab13by13 Dec 2023 #19

I agree, and I also think they will rule he remains on the Colorado ballot JohnSJ Dec 2023 #22

So do I gab13by13 Dec 2023 #33

Don't harsh our mellow! No negative waves so early in the morning! Liberal In Texas Dec 2023 #23

+++ JohnSJ Dec 2023 #25

100% agree. n/t CousinIT Dec 2023 #24

It all depends on what Leonard Leo Bettie Dec 2023 #26

This is the answer. CrispyQ Dec 2023 #73

Agreed. I suspect big business knows tfg hurts their bottom line. lindysalsagal Dec 2023 #81

Why is scotus getting involved in state politics Fullduplexxx Dec 2023 #29

That question needs to be asked to Neil Gorsuch, gab13by13 Dec 2023 #35

Technically we don't know if they will accept this case, though I think they will. I think the reason why they will JohnSJ Dec 2023 #37

Whatever the USSC rules will apply to all 50 states. Not just CO. (Just making a note.) ancianita Dec 2023 #41

Yes, and that is why I think they will base their ruling on Due Process, that trump has not been found guilty of an JohnSJ Dec 2023 #44

You already said elsewhere that a conviction is not necessary. So did Neal Katyal. If ancianita Dec 2023 #49

I didn't say that, someone else did. I just think that this SC will rule on the basis of due process in regard to JohnSJ Dec 2023 #51

Fine. I get it. I thought it was you. But Katyal has said the same. He's the boss. About that due process, ancianita Dec 2023 #76

I actually hope my speculation is wrong and he is kept off the ballot, I just think the US SC will punt on this, and JohnSJ Dec 2023 #79

At the least he will definitely be kept on the ballot in CO, if the court doesn't hear the case. ancianita Dec 2023 #88

Yes, if they go by this, "not indicted" thing they will virtually make the amendment null and void Maraya1969 Dec 2023 #111

On the other hand do we want Repub States deciding which Dem's they think are guilty also.. EX500rider Dec 2023 #143

Elections are part state, part federal. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #93

They wouldn't be (assuming they take it) FBaggins Dec 2023 #95

If you have different states supreme courts coming up with different decisions, how can they not? nt Quixote1818 Dec 2023 #112

States run their own elections those that will allow it will those that dont wont Fullduplexxx Dec 2023 #114

Because it's a federal election n/t Polybius Dec 2023 #121

States run federal elections ... it's still a state matter Fullduplexxx Dec 2023 #127

Sure Polybius Dec 2023 #161

Depends whose money wants Trump out jcgoldie Dec 2023 #34

That's probably the best (and most optimistic) way to look at this. sop Dec 2023 #60

I'm not so sure the corporate wing is more powerful than the Maga anymore Walleye Dec 2023 #87

I believe Trump will be easy to beat in 2024. JohnnyRingo Dec 2023 #36

IT HAS TO. Or else it refutes the actual black and white Constitution. It has to. ancianita Dec 2023 #38

I think this SC will overturn the Colorado SC ruling using that trump has not been found guilty of an insurrection. JohnSJ Dec 2023 #42

It CANNOT overturn the factual finding of that court's ruling. It is a factual ruling. Three reasons: ancianita Dec 2023 #45

Of course it can FBaggins Dec 2023 #91

Nope. Those findings of fact were not what the 3 COSC liberals based their dissent on. It was about 'sufficient' ancianita Dec 2023 #99

"Sufficient due process" IS a critique of the findings of fact FBaggins Dec 2023 #104

It was sufficient, and filed in a federal district court. Evidence of rebellion AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION was presented, ancianita Dec 2023 #123

Do I seriously believe they overlooked the need for a jury trial? FBaggins Dec 2023 #131

Link their dissent. I gotta read it to believe it. ancianita Dec 2023 #137

You keep posting as though you had read the ruling FBaggins Dec 2023 #141

My bad. I only got through the first 50 or so pages. I've been renovating and got distracted. Still, no excuse. ancianita Dec 2023 #155

Agree. They may even rule as they did for Bush vs. Gore, that the ruling should not be used as precedent Freethinker65 Dec 2023 #40

But then what if he is found guilty in the GA case? Maraya1969 Dec 2023 #47

Isn't that entirely a state issue? The Colorado SC wades into the US Constitution, Article 7 as their justification JohnSJ Dec 2023 #50

His charges in Georgia are very similar to an insurection except there is no violence Maraya1969 Dec 2023 #115

David frum said that the other GOP candidates' reactions ecstatic Dec 2023 #48

We need a majority, not unanimous. Roberts? + ? RoeVWade Dec 2023 #53

The section is Self-Executing mymomwasright Dec 2023 #56

Clear and convincing evidence supports the CO Supreme Court factual findings Ponietz Dec 2023 #57

It will probably happen after they disqualify him because of his body odor dalton99a Dec 2023 #58

Couy Griffin was never convicted of insurrection but Court removed him and he can't hold office duhneece Dec 2023 #59

The Constitution doesn't mention a guilty verdict. mzmolly Dec 2023 #61

I believe that is what the US SC will use as their reasoning to overturn the Colorado SC decision. In other words, they JohnSJ Dec 2023 #66

I'm unsure how they can reason that. mzmolly Dec 2023 #132

But it's not criminal, it's a civil finding of fact. scipan Dec 2023 #139

They are going to have to do some contortions to say the national gov't Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2023 #64

I think they will say that the State of Colorado is basing their ruling on Article 7 of the U.S. Constitution, and JohnSJ Dec 2023 #72

I don't even have the hope that you do hurple Dec 2023 #65

If they rule that he is immune from prosecution, then they are ruling that a President is above the law, and that JohnSJ Dec 2023 #68

Not Really hurple Dec 2023 #124

The faint hopes are with bucolic_frolic Dec 2023 #67

Clarence will vote how he is told to vote, gab13by13 Dec 2023 #134

Alas, I believe you are correct and here's why. Hugin Dec 2023 #69

This Court ruled against Тяцмp in all the "stolen election" cases KS Toronado Dec 2023 #71

That is a different issue. I think they will base this decision on Colorado's SC interpretation of the 14th amendment, JohnSJ Dec 2023 #74

My glass is half full KS Toronado Dec 2023 #90

So, Trump wasn't given any opportunity to defend himself in Colorado? gab13by13 Dec 2023 #136

Thomas should recuse himself; Roberts should uphold the the ruling. A 4-4 tie would leave the SCOCO decision intact. LeftyLucie Dec 2023 #75

By that logic if the Jan 6 DC trial finds him guilty, then he could be removed nationwide JT45242 Dec 2023 #77

You have to remember tRunp's 3 appointees have life tenure. They flashman13 Dec 2023 #78

I think we can write off Thomas and Alito, because they are completely compromised. It will be Roberts and JohnSJ Dec 2023 #83

I agree. Gorsuch is a wild card. flashman13 Dec 2023 #89

Rethink that calculus FBaggins Dec 2023 #94

This appears to follow a certain logic, and could be convincingly argued, I think, but what do I know? Joinfortmill Dec 2023 #85

Am I alone in thinking this episode will end up as a footnote? Doc Sportello Dec 2023 #92

Probably right on that Prairie Gates Dec 2023 #102

I agree. This will be stayed on January 4th or when he files an appeal. Read page 9 of the announcement 33taw Dec 2023 #96

It's right there.... LeftInTX Dec 2023 #103

I fully believe this will be appealed and Trump will be on the ballot until the USSC makes a decision. 33taw Dec 2023 #118

maybe not. But think of the uproar when the Trump infused SC bigtree Dec 2023 #97

Succinct and perfect 🎯 Arazi Dec 2023 #129

Feels a little early in the day to put on my Internet Constitution Expert cap Sympthsical Dec 2023 #105

Thanks for your in depth pondering. Hugin Dec 2023 #108

It's what the 14th Amendment says. Kid Berwyn Dec 2023 #106

This disqualification should be in state constitutions. CaptainTruth Dec 2023 #107

Quite the opposite, SCOTUS has historically held that states have very little power over eligibility of federal tritsofme Dec 2023 #142

Harlan Crow, the Kochs, etc., who have turned on trump MIGHT tell Thomas, etc., to end trump's hold on GOP. Silent Type Dec 2023 #109

LAW or POWER? orthoclad Dec 2023 #113

Speculate away but only the billionaire masters of the SCOTUS 6 matter Arazi Dec 2023 #116

Roberts just might surprise everyone. appleannie1 Dec 2023 #117

Agree, but I'll enjoy the feel good feeling while I can. republianmushroom Dec 2023 #119

I'll one better ya: Polybius Dec 2023 #120

I had thought like you, but then noticed that Congress only freed Jefferson Davis from disqualification in 1978 muriel_volestrangler Dec 2023 #122

Davis and Lee were not US citizens when they died. This bill restored their citizenship LeftInTX Dec 2023 #130

It does indeed create a precedent - but not one that works in this case FBaggins Dec 2023 #133

Davis and Lee were not even US citizens, so there's that... LeftInTX Dec 2023 #138

But the Section 3 of the 14th Amendment mentioned is the specific section under discussion for Trump muriel_volestrangler Dec 2023 #145

They were dead for almost 100 years. It was a goodwill gesture. Not being used to determine if they can run for office. LeftInTX Dec 2023 #148

section 3 of amendment XIV of the Constitution does not mention citizenship; it mentions the right to run for office muriel_volestrangler Dec 2023 #150

I guess it all depends on what Harlan Crow and all the other owners want. Vinca Dec 2023 #140

While I'd love to see Agolf Tweetler off the political map TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #149

Yep PBateman70 Dec 2023 #151

So what are the polls telling you? What the record of the last three years should tell you is TFG has not ... marble falls Dec 2023 #152

It might TexasDem69 Dec 2023 #154

If the SC rules he is off the ballot in Colorado, the other states will soon follow JohnSJ Dec 2023 #158

The other states would have to follow some process TexasDem69 Dec 2023 #159

If they rule he is off the ballot because he was part of the insurrection, that ruling JohnSJ Dec 2023 #160

A 6-3 decision would just be more BootinUp Dec 2023 #156