General Discussion

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)

137. Hackers use all sorts of terminology...

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:38 PM

Nov 2012

...that is not strictly technically "just so". It's part of their schtick.

Furthermore, I am very aware that ORCA was a piece of software intended to help with GOTV. Or at least so we're told.

However, the Anonymous email mentioned ORCA but did not claim it was the central element: "We identified the digital structure of Karl's operation and even that of his ORCA." Please read carefully: "Karl's operation" "and" "his ORCA". Two separate things.

So yes, the letter was filled with flowery language and less-than-tech-spec language. It was intended to be somewhat of a popularization. As I stated, I don't know at all whether they really did prevent some vote-switching in Ohio. After 2004's debacle, I am not inclined to dismiss it out-of-hand, that's all. And certainly not because some hackers decided to use flowery language.

Now as far as the personal attack in your header, my response is: you can go to hell.

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Wasn't sure whether to believe the Anonymous/Rove story,until the reaction telling us to shut up @it [View all] RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 OP

Really? Insulting fellow DUers is how you want to go? randome Nov 2012 #1

Yep, we should all shut up and get back to slurping vomit.. Fumesucker Nov 2012 #11

I don't see an insult toward Duers at all... help me out, please? Melinda Nov 2012 #17

I'll concede that. It was a little unclear to me on first reading that he only meant KOS and not DU. randome Nov 2012 #21

Thanks... the loss of neurons in me head causes me (and others!) no end of grief. Melinda Nov 2012 #25

Why, thank you. Don't mind if I do! randome Nov 2012 #28

Them cookies look GOOD, yo. leeroysphitz Nov 2012 #93

What's this? "Markos Moulitsas: Fraudsters, take your shit elsewhere" RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #27

I had not been in that thread. I wasn't even sure what it was about. randome Nov 2012 #42

Thanks for starting this thread. I've felt that there are some strange attitudes at the Kos site byeya Nov 2012 #109

Because they don't want DU to become known as the home of gullible mouth-breathers? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #223

Because truthers degrade Kos' brand, and so are not welcome . . . MrModerate Nov 2012 #279

I have no idea whether the hacking is true or not. Bonhomme Richard Nov 2012 #2

"Wasn't sure whether to believe the Anonymous/Rove story,until the reaction..." ProSense Nov 2012 #3

If you have been studying the net for as long as I have RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #7

"People are sent, and they will not let the topic go" ProSense Nov 2012 #10

And Here You Are. bahrbearian Nov 2012 #59

Odd, someone else reinforces the point. A Simple Game Nov 2012 #113

Touche! Capt. Obvious Nov 2012 #120

Yeah, here I am. ProSense Nov 2012 #151

Yeah, here she is. Thank Goodness. nm Cha Nov 2012 #265

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! RomneyLies Nov 2012 #33

Contrary evidence is POSITIVE evidence! Scootaloo Nov 2012 #129

They crack me up too. So do 'former Republicans' like Kos sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #146

Cenk is a "former Republican" ProSense Nov 2012 #154

Ed Schultz is a former Republican. randome Nov 2012 #156

Cenk has explained his transformation. He has never, that I am aware of, written about his sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #190

So's Howard Dean...and Hillary Clinton! MADem Nov 2012 #217

Yes they came to their senses but kos never did. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #225

You're not seriously suggesting that kos is a Republican? MADem Nov 2012 #230

Again, you comparing people who are in no way comparable to kos, to someone who, hopefully sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #235

I am not "comparing" anyone at all. What I am endeavoring to point out is that we are a large party. MADem Nov 2012 #287

The Big Tent argument always seems to ignore that what that meant sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #288

The Big Tent isn't an argument, though--it's the operative philosophy of the party. MADem Nov 2012 #291

It's simple. I don't like Republicans in the Big Tent. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #293

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I don't think your POV holds sway. MADem Nov 2012 #294

more on this .. Cass Sunstein is disturbed by all the "extremism" kilgore_trout Dec 2012 #296

actually this link is better kilgore_trout Dec 2012 #297

Welcome to DU! hrmjustin Dec 2012 #299

I Agree SoCalMusicLover Nov 2012 #4

Here's a good point: ProSense Nov 2012 #6

ORCA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! Atman Nov 2012 #53

Then why did it fail? jeff47 Nov 2012 #65

Software fails all the time. lalalu Nov 2012 #131

Something as trivial as "change O to R" isn't gonna fail. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2012 #260

Sure it can. Just like something as trivial as lalalu Nov 2012 #274

Downloading that update has no effect. Installing that update does, and is much more complex. jeff47 Nov 2012 #284

"All the other times they've been wrong"??? aquart Nov 2012 #139

Exit polling isn't used like you think it is. jeff47 Nov 2012 #261

Trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs? aquart Nov 2012 #268

No, you're the one implying exit polls are infallible. My grandmother took statistics. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2012 #269

Except that the (alleged) Anonymous statement claimed... regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #160

I AGREE! I am not arguing FOR Anonymous! Atman Nov 2012 #162

No-one suspects it, and that is suspicious? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #226

I know exactly as much as you do about the software patches. Atman Nov 2012 #236

You admit you don't know anything was amiss muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #239

Have even read my posts? It sure doesn't seem so. Atman Nov 2012 #248

Yes, I've read them, and they appear to be disconected from reality muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #259

"If this story is true, all that happened was essentially a validation of Obama's victory. " RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #12

Who is tryiing to lie to you? There is no evidence that anything happened. True or false? randome Nov 2012 #13

False bigmonkey Nov 2012 #51

The "evidence" we need is from the Manufacturers of the BBV. Prove they are Vincardog Nov 2012 #112

Without evidence, there is nothing to prove or disprove. randome Nov 2012 #124

I stand by my post. The lack of evidence is because the preps refuse to validate Vincardog Nov 2012 #126

Electronic voting is like the Internet itself, IMO. randome Nov 2012 #142

open yet secure, these are not two diametrically opposed ideals. Open Source Vincardog Nov 2012 #155

If open source was the sole answer, we would not have massive identify theft today. randome Nov 2012 #158

And anything that is cloaked in secrecy is open to be abused. Atman Nov 2012 #168

I'm not opposing anything! randome Nov 2012 #173

The receipt is POINTLESS. Atman Nov 2012 #189

I said the printed ballot would be dropped into a locked box. randome Nov 2012 #193

But what triggers a re-count? Atman Nov 2012 #227

Good post dreamnightwind Nov 2012 #280

Reliability is not the same problem as security. OS would guarantee the code WORKS Vincardog Nov 2012 #184

Whatever code they're using now apparently works and was not hacked. randome Nov 2012 #187

You absolutely do not know that. Atman Nov 2012 #233

+1 aquart Nov 2012 #140

Anon timeline? JaneyVee Nov 2012 #5

Shut up about what? Javaman Nov 2012 #8

It's not even 'anonymous' it's some wanker in a mask. geek tragedy Nov 2012 #37

Nah, it Was Karl Rove in the Fox green room with the Guy Fawkes mask RomneyLies Nov 2012 #56

If it did go down as described, the evidence deleted itself the instant after the evnt. Occulus Nov 2012 #157

+1000 Atman Nov 2012 #170

association is not evidence. Javaman Nov 2012 #295

yes, very suggestive of fire being covered up when the smoke is scoffed at. librechik Nov 2012 #9

Except there's no smoke. There's someone saying "Look! Smoke!" jeff47 Nov 2012 #62

I'm glad you weren't working on the Challenger mission librechik Nov 2012 #128

That's a really stupid analogy... regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #181

really? I think it's stupid for one poster to imagine they can read the mind of another librechik Nov 2012 #186

Name-calling? You're the one who compared another DUer to incompetent engineers muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #231

It was not the engineers who decided to send Challenger up Demeter Nov 2012 #272

So you refer to someones analogy as "stupid" and you think this is going to help the conversation? louslobbs Nov 2012 #251

Nothing has been pointed out. jeff47 Nov 2012 #250

I find the theory plausible. I value Election Integrity above Party. IdaBriggs Nov 2012 #14

The difference is evidence. jeff47 Nov 2012 #73

I agree with you. Evidence is important. Ignoring evidence is the status quo. IdaBriggs Nov 2012 #89

+1000000 for bringing up Andy and his work- Thank you RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #94

Exactly. Thank you. aquart Nov 2012 #143

BOOM! Atman Nov 2012 #175

So you're now claiming that events in 2004 are evidence for what happened in 2012? jeff47 Nov 2012 #257

What did Rachael Maddow recently say? IdaBriggs Nov 2012 #275

The more they scream the more I want it discussed Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #15

KOS can do what he wants at his site Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #16

Lots of shit stirring ProSense Nov 2012 #18

You Better Believe It!!!! nt msanthrope Nov 2012 #159

RepublicansRZombies has been here about 90 days, not 30 (nt) muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #232

K&R n/t Z_I_Peevey Nov 2012 #19

LOL. "won't let anyone talk about 9/11 either" cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #20

When they talk about Benghazi they sound crazy and lose credibility. Hamlette Nov 2012 #22

No rumor is true until it is officially denied Demeter Nov 2012 #23

Then anonymous is evil. jeff47 Nov 2012 #75

On the other hand Demeter Nov 2012 #101

How, exactly, would they counteract new voting machines with a recounted paper trail? jeff47 Nov 2012 #252

You also need a government of integrity to do the hole closing Demeter Nov 2012 #273

The problem is previous holes have not been shown to be real election-day vulnerabilities jeff47 Nov 2012 #283

When does the paper trail get examined? dreamnightwind Nov 2012 #281

There's a problem of scale jeff47 Nov 2012 #282

Scaling up a counting crew would be the least of our worries dreamnightwind Nov 2012 #286

Post removed Post removed Nov 2012 #24

Why don't you try learning something about how this new fangled technology stuff werks! phleshdef Nov 2012 #26

"there are many of us with years of IT experience" RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #38

Its not a tactic. Its the last 15 years of my fucking life. phleshdef Nov 2012 #47

An anonymous email versus the contextual explanations of your fellow DUers. randome Nov 2012 #48

Actually, the experts explained it to you in plenty of detail. jeff47 Nov 2012 #70

So were those machines not connected to the internet... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #100

+10000000 RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #136

It depends on the system. Remember, the conspiracy theory is OH, FL and VA. jeff47 Nov 2012 #254

"The tabulators may or may not be on the Internet"... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #255

No, you need to actually read what I'm saying. jeff47 Nov 2012 #271

And there are many of us with years of IT experience... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #99

If you think there is something there, then you don't know shit and you are lying about IT exp. phleshdef Nov 2012 #125

Hackers use all sorts of terminology... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #137

Oh horse shit. Its not a case of "hackers using all sorts of terminology". phleshdef Nov 2012 #148

Unless, of course, they intentionally misrepresented their tactics, Occulus Nov 2012 #161

I'm so glad that I've already gone bald. phleshdef Nov 2012 #176

You are obviously a self-important boob... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #185

Bwahhahahah "boob". I'm not self important, I just KNOW what I'm talking about. phleshdef Nov 2012 #188

It is obvious that your reading comprehension needs some work... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #192

I'm dismissing the purported Anonymous letter out of hand. phleshdef Nov 2012 #198

Regarding ORCA... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #206

Please go read about what ORCA actually was. It wasn't anything fancy at all. phleshdef Nov 2012 #213

Again with the lack of reading comprehension... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #218

The (fake) Anonymous letter attempted to draw a connection between ORCA and vote rigging. phleshdef Nov 2012 #219

People who are afraid of any talk of conspiracies... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #222

I'm not afraid to talk of conspiracies and I don't deny that conspiracies have and do occur. phleshdef Nov 2012 #224

So did you notice the sh*t Husted was pulling this time? ljm2002 Nov 2012 #229

Of course I noticed it. But he wasn't nearly as successful as Blackwell. phleshdef Nov 2012 #238

"This kind of shit makes us look like flat earthers"... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #241

I prefer critical thinking to "feelings" when it comes to a claim cali Nov 2012 #29

Then please explain... regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #30

It would have been 314 without Ohio, no? nt geek tragedy Nov 2012 #35

Basic logic Pbs1914 Nov 2012 #31

well said! "the simple fact that every possible angle to suppress votes was used by Karl Rove etc" RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #52

One can admit the possibility without swallowing this hypothesis... regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #194

Begs the question: Why WOULDN'T they? joeunderdog Nov 2012 #277

yeah and duh marions ghost Nov 2012 #66

^== This. NT IdaBriggs Nov 2012 #92

Wrong Springslips Nov 2012 #240

Kos is CIA? naaman fletcher Nov 2012 #32

Kos himself says he applied to join the CIA but then changed his mind starroute Nov 2012 #141

thanks. nt naaman fletcher Nov 2012 #163

That's how the Birthers reacted when their similarly unsubstantiated geek tragedy Nov 2012 #34

I do have to admit, there is a HUGE difference between Fraudsters and Birthers RomneyLies Nov 2012 #40

Amazing how some people believe something just because they see it geek tragedy Nov 2012 #45

Or disbelieve something.. 99Forever Nov 2012 #55

I disbelieve it becaues there is no reason to believe it. geek tragedy Nov 2012 #81

Your opinion... 99Forever Nov 2012 #102

You do know that's the same thing Creationists say, right? randome Nov 2012 #105

More strawman bullshit from you? 99Forever Nov 2012 #110

How is your embrace of this conspiracy theory different than creationism or birtherism? nt geek tragedy Nov 2012 #133

How is ... 99Forever Nov 2012 #174

Dean Chambers, a polling blogger, is alleging voter fraud in 4 states with Republican governors. geek tragedy Nov 2012 #201

Did I ask you to? 99Forever Nov 2012 #212

No, the lack of evidence is a FACT. geek tragedy Nov 2012 #132

Code can delete itself immediately after execution, and it can do so without a trace. Occulus Nov 2012 #164

So you're supporting a 'maybe' with a 'can'. Like adding zeros together and expecting > 0. randome Nov 2012 #165

For someone that... 99Forever Nov 2012 #178

I have NO evidence that anything happened on election night. Do you? randome Nov 2012 #180

So... 99Forever Nov 2012 #200

Touchy, isn't he? randome Nov 2012 #204

And, totally unimpressive. nm Cha Nov 2012 #267

Wrong. 99Forever Nov 2012 #172

Please point to one fact proving that geek tragedy Nov 2012 #197

Please point to one fact proving that 99Forever Nov 2012 #215

Logical fallacy. Those making a claim are the ones who bear geek tragedy Nov 2012 #249

A lot of words, just to say... 99Forever Nov 2012 #270

I was sent by Central Corporate Command (CCC) to shut down discussion! alcibiades_mystery Nov 2012 #36

hee hee RomneyLies Nov 2012 #43

+1000000... regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #199

So one random jackass claims they hacked Rove's hack, and it's a big story and coverup? snooper2 Nov 2012 #39

When you say 'scoop'... randome Nov 2012 #44

No, we don't need to see your "scoop." MineralMan Nov 2012 #144

Yep you got it madokie Nov 2012 #41

Ah yes, those who discount CT bullshit as CT bullshit are OBVIOUSLY IN ON THE CONSPIRACY!!! RomneyLies Nov 2012 #46

Why won't the government tell us the truth? MineralMan Nov 2012 #145

Don't forget Rove The Almighty has not yet weighed in on this issue. randome Nov 2012 #147

...and the utter absence of evidence only proves the conspiracy is working. regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #202

"You know you're over the target when you start taking flack." Hugin Nov 2012 #49

Anyone who has lived through the last 12 years in Ohio knows.... peace13 Nov 2012 #50

Thank you. Z_I_Peevey Nov 2012 #54

the same religious fervor that told us to shut up about social security-just wait and see RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #60

Yes, I bet kos was among that contingency also. He is so predictable. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #244

Exactly. Well said. nt truckin Nov 2012 #91

Meh, that's kind of immature isn't it? treestar Nov 2012 #57

It is a Fact that Karl Rove is a Shitty Deal!!! mstinamotorcity2 Nov 2012 #58

So the moon landing was fake? jeff47 Nov 2012 #61

Agreed. People like Debbie Wasserman-Schultz dissmissing (or laughing off) Phx_Dem Nov 2012 #63

+1000 n/t Z_I_Peevey Nov 2012 #74

This is making the Democrats look crazy gravity Nov 2012 #64

NO, this is people looking crazy and saying they are Dems Coyotl Nov 2012 #115

Bingo! regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #205

I have thought that as well... Myrina Nov 2012 #67

You forgot a third possibility. randome Nov 2012 #76

Same, predictable group, too. woo me with science Nov 2012 #234

I particularly find amusing the inclusion of swearing. Lighten up, Francises! WinkyDink Nov 2012 #68

In my mind, the reaction you are describing is only evidence that some people don't want to talk ZombieHorde Nov 2012 #69

If they don't want to talk about it, why do they start threads about it? RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #72

Good point. I should have said they don't want to credit the topic. nt ZombieHorde Nov 2012 #83

that is just the thing that has me wonder, why do they care so much if it is so discredited? RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #85

We need to be saved from the pending congelation of a falsehood Coyotl Nov 2012 #117

It's possible they did. I don't know. xfundy Nov 2012 #71

ONLY important issue is adressing the FACT that the machines are hackable. RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #80

Paper ballots with a verifiable chain of security byeya Nov 2012 #103

"verifiable chain of security" yes, also very important! Kathy Nickolaus taught us that one. RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #134

There are lots of important issues, and this is NOT one of them Coyotl Nov 2012 #121

Quoting Bev Harris may not get you any points here at DU starroute Nov 2012 #152

Quoting Bev Harris will get your entire argument summarily dismissed Occulus Nov 2012 #167

Meanwhile, when an unidentified person posts some bullshit, everyone asks for seconds Coyotl Nov 2012 #182

Why are you so 'concerned' about this? It was, up to the point where we started seeing this sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #191

Bev Harris is an authority on thes matters, like her personally or not Coyotl Nov 2012 #177

No, Bev Harris is a known grifter and fraud Occulus Nov 2012 #262

I'll make a note somewhere that you are the expert in this matter, the all knowing one. Coyotl Nov 2012 #263

I don't like her--she lied about Andy, she'll lie about anything. IMO. nt MADem Nov 2012 #292

Yes. It would be lovely if 2012 caused Republicans to send these stupid machines to landfill. aquart Nov 2012 #149

Meh, not really. Maybe they're just sick of talking about it. Taverner Nov 2012 #77

The level of effort to discredit a theory does make you think twice.... marions ghost Nov 2012 #78

Theories start with a modicum of evidence or facts. randome Nov 2012 #79

Well it sure got all the authoritarian third way and right wingers all upset. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #242

yes, that is what is so weird about it RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #88

So you'll draw a conclusion based simply on what bloggers are saying? TroglodyteScholar Nov 2012 #82

Or YOU could be a Republican/CIA here to discredit Kos Matariki Nov 2012 #84

Kos takes care of that all by himself, to free thinking liberals asking questions RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #104

While I don't think this particular reaction proves anything... ljm2002 Nov 2012 #86

Thus far, all we have is Anonymous' assertion. Where's the evidence that coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #87

I personally don't believe a bunch of hackers did anything in this election. Gore1FL Nov 2012 #90

Wasn't sure whether to believe the Moon Landing Hoax story,until the reaction telling us to shut up muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #95

Brilliant! regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #208

+1000! Turn CO Blue Nov 2012 #258

I kicked Kos out of my line up long ago. n/t 2pooped2pop Nov 2012 #96

if you can't prove ejbr Nov 2012 #97

There are many things we will NEVER know. In a poker game, it's best to bluff than valerief Nov 2012 #98

I don't believe the Ohio Diebold machines can be hacked. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #106

Manditory audits of recorded votes vs paper votes is a must. Not sure if Ohio has that. yourout Nov 2012 #127

Paper ballots are logged and certified at the precinct.... JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #183

I doubt script kiddies living in their parents' basements can hack election machines. Odin2005 Nov 2012 #107

Anonymous is not just script kiddies living in their parents' basements starroute Nov 2012 #166

Yes, any time someone makes fun of an assertion, that means its TRUE! Warren DeMontague Nov 2012 #108

The idea that it was possible for the vote to be hacked Ford_Prefect Nov 2012 #111

"The best 'argument' the people who tell us to shut up about it have ..." Denzil_DC Nov 2012 #114

"Wishful thinking" seems to be the key here... regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #211

If Anonymous had proof on Rove they would spill it. iandhr Nov 2012 #116

I don't put anything past them.... NRaleighLiberal Nov 2012 #118

2012 ELECTION WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!! Capt. Obvious Nov 2012 #119

There really is no evidence of this CT. Jennicut Nov 2012 #122

I can always tell that people are UP to something, when a group of people send a fake video to self Coyotl Nov 2012 #123

Ooh, that picture may come in so handy muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #237

Many limited hangout 'Democrats' (like Kos who was Republican/CIA?) are misleading the party. AlbertCat Nov 2012 #130

Wow, crazy is really taking off! n/t ProSense Nov 2012 #135

That's a pretty low evidentiary bar ya got there. n/t cherokeeprogressive Nov 2012 #138

All that is asked for is evidence, which has yet to be presented. NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #150

"'Rove acted like an idiot on Fox News'" is NOT evidence." ProSense Nov 2012 #153

LOL, if Rove acting like an idiot is evidence of a conspiracy, NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #169

So far, this thread has become comic gold... regnaD kciN Nov 2012 #214

Sigh... gcomeau Nov 2012 #171

Welcome to Freep Bizzaro World! NightOwwl Nov 2012 #179

Here's my take, for what's it's worth rightsideout Nov 2012 #195

CT deniers crack me up. Waiting For Everyman Nov 2012 #196

" Who on this board is delusional enough to try and pretend that conspiracy is not a substantial..." randome Nov 2012 #207

What a ridiculous comment ProSense Nov 2012 #209

Really? I thought it was one of my better ones. Waiting For Everyman Nov 2012 #220

Yep. Z_I_Peevey Nov 2012 #247

This whole thread backs up the original post. Eyes of the World Nov 2012 #203

Here's an interesting tidbit from Legal Schnauzer starroute Nov 2012 #210

Well, gee, that's a competing theory to the one that Anonymous is a collaboration between MADem Nov 2012 #216

Anonymous aside... peace13 Nov 2012 #221

I fear voter intimidation more than hackery, frankly. MADem Nov 2012 #228

Are you aware that Ohio votes were run through the RNC computers in 2004... peace13 Nov 2012 #246

You twisted that all wrong. Coyotl Nov 2012 #264

I beg to differ. peace13 Nov 2012 #285

And Simplicity is simplicity marions ghost Nov 2012 #256

And it doesn't mean that Anonymous isn't run by the CIA, either. MADem Nov 2012 #276

How I wish I could unrec intaglio Nov 2012 #243

The old 'CT' charge even when it does not apply. The real CT is to pretend that our elections and sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #245

If That is Your Methodology, On the Road Nov 2012 #253

Okay, I Confess! You got me... brooklynite Nov 2012 #266

We all spent time and money getting Democrats elected. We did so back sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #290

It May Be True, It May Not Be True colsohlibgal Nov 2012 #278

ANONYMOUS - WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE!!! warrprayer Nov 2012 #289

It's the Third Way, working hard to protect the Military Industrial Complex from democracy. Zorra Dec 2012 #298