General Discussion

reusrename

(1,716 posts)

109. We prefer to confront the reality that we live in, not hide from it.

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:00 PM

Nov 2012

As a small boy, when I watched the Zapruder film for the first time, having just lived through the nightmare of a national tragedy, my mind was screaming "WHO WAS DRIVING THAT CAR?"

Since then I've lived through many more national tragedies, and I've learned that the man driving the car was specially trained for that job, which makes perfect sense because it is really difficult to not react at all when you are being shot at for eight seconds.

But this is merely my description of the world we live in. To me it is a scrupulously accurate description. I don't try to run and hide from the facts.

Choosing not to confront the reality that Anonymous has made an extremely plausible claim is a way of denying the reality that we are all facing.

This is not a drill.

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Excuse Me... But In Many Ways... This ENTIRE SITE Was Founded Over A STOLEN ELECTION [View all] WillyT Nov 2012 OP

Let me be the first to K&R Fumesucker Nov 2012 #1

And let me be the 185th. Great post. I see the posse of deniers are here trying to get you to shut rhett o rick Nov 2012 #148

Let me be the 200th! That's what led me to DU, back then. calimary Nov 2012 #157

I didnt figure it out until after the 2004 debacle. Gland to find Air America and DU. nm rhett o rick Nov 2012 #167

Thom explains what happened in 2004 & what could have happened 2012: Rockyj Nov 2012 #221

Well you have to remember, that they may not be "deniers" at all... rwsanders Nov 2012 #273

WillyT, you are a gem. pacalo Nov 2012 #2

Shh... WillyT Nov 2012 #149

Too late... pacalo Nov 2012 #180

Excellent point. Greybnk48 Nov 2012 #3

+1 sandyshoes17 Nov 2012 #21

Me too! Awknid Nov 2012 #83

I have an Andy Stephenson for Secratary of State button. FogerRox Nov 2012 #139

I remember your name. You used to post quite often. Greybnk48 Nov 2012 #147

HELLO ! ! Yeah, heady days, I lived voting machines for 3 years FogerRox Nov 2012 #159

I remember you too. reusrename Nov 2012 #150

Hi Foger, Melissa G Nov 2012 #234

Hey, MG, yeah like a family :~) FogerRox Nov 2012 #253

Hey Foger !!! - Thanks For Coming Back For This... WillyT Nov 2012 #305

It's offensive as hell. reusrename Nov 2012 #4

When was this site founded? aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #5

2001 after SCOTUS awarded race to Bush basically nt steve2470 Nov 2012 #11

I found the Top Ten Conservative Idiots early on in '01 ... SomeGuyInEagan Nov 2012 #133

Me, too! kimmylavin Nov 2012 #231

Me too. lark Nov 2012 #243

When Bush was appointed. At his inauguration I saw a banner for this site Autumn Nov 2012 #15

Thanks guys! aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #30

I found it late in 2001, joined in 2002. Mainly a lurker for many years catbyte Nov 2012 #102

Ditto. Discovered DU in 2001 after Supremes AMBushed U.S. Lurked a bit then joined after '04 Ohio! cyberpj Nov 2012 #222

True American watchdog group, they should be proud . orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #34

We were live blogging the oversight hearings minute by minute Coyotl Nov 2012 #50

+1000 orpupilofnature57 Nov 2012 #55

I saw one of the founders being interviewed on Washington Journal SoCalDem Nov 2012 #232

I think many new people arrive around election times for many reasons... glinda Nov 2012 #127

I understand. I do. n/t HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #6

but this is different rucky Nov 2012 #7

Wait, 2000 actually happened? nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #8

Thank you! Well said! This board is for the DISCUSSION of all political topics. nt. OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #9

Bravo! The DU way is not telling people to shut up! aletier_v Nov 2012 #10

Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team) bestobdii Nov 2012 #169

Right ON! MuseRider Nov 2012 #12

But they need proof , proof I tell ya. I wonder how many are of faith? Do they talk to God? bahrbearian Nov 2012 #13

Not proof. Evidence. There is none. randome Nov 2012 #23

False bigmonkey Nov 2012 #47

Fine. You say you have evidence. Now what? randome Nov 2012 #49

Mitt, is that you? bigmonkey Nov 2012 #61

What I thought. You have not through this through at all. randome Nov 2012 #67

That is a silly thing to say. Self-revelant. Really. byronius Nov 2012 #112

Why are you trying to argue that fraud is possible? We know it is! randome Nov 2012 #119

Uhhhh, push for federally-regulated paper ballots and an absolutely public election process? byronius Nov 2012 #152

"Questions like that"? It's a simple question. randome Nov 2012 #155

Your thought process seems disjointed. byronius Nov 2012 #192

The issue is about election fraud, not voter fraud or as you write it "fraudulent voting" suffragette Nov 2012 #174

You really have to wonder what their agenda is all about? bahrbearian Nov 2012 #79

Who are "they"? bigmonkey Nov 2012 #90

They are the ones who say "there is no evidence" bahrbearian Nov 2012 #118

Can fraudulent voting occur? Yes. randome Nov 2012 #122

Not enought to change an election. bahrbearian Nov 2012 #132

It isn't about voting. It isn't about voters. It is called ELECTION not voter fraud. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #289

Oh, please, stop with the baiting. randome Nov 2012 #291

Please stop with mis characterizing the issue. You've done it multiple times sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #299

good one glinda Nov 2012 #128

Lol, and there you are again! sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #181

i am rather ignorant of the whole discussion truedelphi Nov 2012 #189

This message was self-deleted by its author lark Nov 2012 #247

K & R malaise Nov 2012 #14

Questions DakotaLady Nov 2012 #43

K&R = Kicked and Recommended. n/t = No Text, meaning nothing more than the subject line. randome Nov 2012 #45

Thank you ... DakotaLady Nov 2012 #69

It's in the My Profile link at the top of each page. randome Nov 2012 #70

Damn... You're Actually A Nice Person... WillyT Nov 2012 #110

Time for bed, WillyT. randome Nov 2012 #120

very tippy top of page Maynar Nov 2012 #73

Off to the tippy top ... DakotaLady Nov 2012 #84

Welcome DakotaLady! Change has come Nov 2012 #106

Hear hear! MNBrewer Nov 2012 #16

Remember when we ProSense Nov 2012 #17

Of Course... But I Definitely Do Not Mind The Discussion And The Various Good Points On Either Side WillyT Nov 2012 #24

If that's the case, what's with the "shut up" straw man? ProSense Nov 2012 #29

I'd Have To Name Names... And That Ain't Cool Here At DU... WillyT Nov 2012 #31

If you have to name names, then ProSense Nov 2012 #38

Ok... Fair Enough... Why Are YOU So DRIVEN To Confront/Weigh-In On These Discussions... WillyT Nov 2012 #78

Why are you so intent of playing the victim? ProSense Nov 2012 #216

You're not the one posting "end of story" starroute Nov 2012 #36

'End of story' is another way of saying 'Not enough for me'. randome Nov 2012 #37

We prefer to confront the reality that we live in, not hide from it. reusrename Nov 2012 #109

What are the next steps, then? randome Nov 2012 #113

I'm hoping that I won't have to do a whole lot, other than join the discussion. reusrename Nov 2012 #135

Disagreeing on an anonymous email is hardly 'impeding'. randome Nov 2012 #143

Fine it's not intentional, it's ignorance. I won't argue the point. I don't really care. reusrename Nov 2012 #156

It sure has raised the issue of election fraud, hasn't it? And if that was all sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #262

The Anon claim is stupid, and probably not made by anon. FogerRox Nov 2012 #142

Ohio electronically flipped 65,777 primary votes to Romney. reusrename Nov 2012 #171

By what mechanism that existed in both elections, and could be connected to by AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #182

It was only one election, the March 6 Ohio primary. reusrename Nov 2012 #186

They are claiming (or someone claiming to be anonymous is claiming) to have connected to and AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #257

My brother suspects they hacked the passwords so nobody could log in. reusrename Nov 2012 #280

The machines were not. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #284

If you're referring to the Anonymus hacking claims, being asked for evidence is not jeff47 Nov 2012 #18

"being told to shut up" is ProSense Nov 2012 #22

You would have a point if anyone was arguing that there was evidence. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #264

Anonymous makes it easier for Kos to dismiss the issue. allrevvedup Nov 2012 #281

If this was Anonymous, they have a record to prove that when they say sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #282

Video: "We will turn over all this data allrevvedup Nov 2012 #283

Lol, you lost me at Assange is a Romney lover' or whatever that was. He hates sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #286

Assange: “It’s better to have a sheep in wolf’s clothing [ROMNEY] allrevvedup Nov 2012 #287

KNR Lucinda Nov 2012 #19

K&R WillyT louslobbs Nov 2012 #20

Thank you! Punkingal Nov 2012 #25

Halle-fucking-luja! Raster Nov 2012 #26

I'm relatively new, but still, I'm with you! Squinch Nov 2012 #104

I made a "joke" about Anonymous and the Hacking, BUT... liberalmuse Nov 2012 #27

What YOU said.. And anyone who's curious, and would like annabanana Nov 2012 #28

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - And Thank You !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #32

I was here through the 2004 election and I remember Bev Harris + Black Box Voting very well. Hyper_Eye Nov 2012 #33

Well reasoned. Thank you. Coyotl Nov 2012 #54

Exactly riverSdawn Nov 2012 #75

Thanks for that. I don't believe in the rapture, no matter what it's called. freshwest Nov 2012 #162

We are rich in fallout, WillyT yellerpup Nov 2012 #35

Thank you. bleever Nov 2012 #39

gosh it's good to see you still here bleever denese Nov 2012 #111

Hard to believe that it was eight years ago! bleever Nov 2012 #267

this was the one true place I could find sanity CatWoman Nov 2012 #40

Me Too... WillyT Nov 2012 #42

WOW! Carolina Nov 2012 #93

Oh those dark days...DU gave me safe haven. myrna minx Nov 2012 #116

yes. refuge from madness. even when lurking. CrazyOrangeCat Nov 2012 #121

heres a couple of oldies FogerRox Nov 2012 #146

Election Reform is where I picked up most of my posts. It's great MelissaB Nov 2012 #238

Excellent post CatWoman! Couldn't have said it better. Window Nov 2012 #153

The only elections that can be stolen are the ones with opportunity to steal them Coyotl Nov 2012 #41

Spot on Coyotl riverSdawn Nov 2012 #82

where heaven05 Nov 2012 #103

Not having proof does not mean not being able to discuss starroute Nov 2012 #44

THANK YOU !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #48

And no one is. It's a straw man argument. randome Nov 2012 #51

Here's the flaw in that logic: ProSense Nov 2012 #56

you heaven05 Nov 2012 #108

"Keep up the good fight"? What are you fighting for? randome Nov 2012 #115

I heaven05 Nov 2012 #125

But you'd rather I did a search instead of answering my question. randome Nov 2012 #131

Not to quibble, but Ineeda Nov 2012 #217

Two names: Keith Olbermann and Bev Harris ProSense Nov 2012 #211

ohhh heaven05 Nov 2012 #214

But did you know ProSense Nov 2012 #215

that's it? heaven05 Nov 2012 #220

Are you really comparing Bev Harris to Anonymous? starroute Nov 2012 #218

No, I'm comparing ProSense Nov 2012 #223

Anonymous are "Wacko" ? NorthCarolina Nov 2012 #226

That was ProSense Nov 2012 #246

K and R'd to the nth degree... Bennyboy Nov 2012 #46

Mee TOO! Plucketeer Nov 2012 #58

The 2000 election was "stolen" by tens of thousands of legitimate voters being purged from the rolls RomneyLies Nov 2012 #52

Indeed, pay attention to where there are real opportunities to steal elections Coyotl Nov 2012 #60

I am doubtful that the Rebubs limit their methods to just a handful..... glinda Nov 2012 #138

Interesting... Could You Expand On That ??? WillyT Nov 2012 #65

Had the voter rolls not been purged, mostly of African Americans RomneyLies Nov 2012 #87

That's not quite what happened. reusrename Nov 2012 #177

You are conflating two issues Coyotl Nov 2012 #195

You're correct, the two issues are intentionally conflated. reusrename Nov 2012 #213

K&R TomClash Nov 2012 #53

I don't want you to shut up--I want you to talk more, and show us the evidence. nt msanthrope Nov 2012 #57

Maybe I've been asleep, but I haven't seen anyone say to shut up about it. TroglodyteScholar Nov 2012 #59

Apparently insisting on evidence is the same thing as being told to shut up. randome Nov 2012 #63

Thank you WillyT. Well said. K&R'd Matariki Nov 2012 #62

+1 Divine Discontent Nov 2012 #183

Thanks for reminding everyone liberal N proud Nov 2012 #64

Hear, hear! You tell em Willy T. juajen Nov 2012 #66

:hug: WillyT Nov 2012 #68

Heah, heah, good sire! nt morningglory Nov 2012 #71

Wish I knew about you all back then... EmeraldCityGrl Nov 2012 #72

I didn't find DU until after the 2004 election suffragette Nov 2012 #175

It's a lovely petticoat. Never be ashamed DevonRex Nov 2012 #74

That's exactly why I came here. byronius Nov 2012 #76

+ 200 brazillion! notadmblnd Nov 2012 #77

Well said... femrap Nov 2012 #80

right on proud patriot Nov 2012 #81

Shhh... WillyT Nov 2012 #85

Can I steal this thread? nt OhZone Nov 2012 #86

Be My Guest... WillyT Nov 2012 #97

Bravo. well said. K and R. NRaleighLiberal Nov 2012 #88

shut up just pisses me off heaven05 Nov 2012 #89

I love your post felix_numinous Nov 2012 #91

And to see Kos weighing in was just the icing on the cake. Did you know sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #92

And did you also notice that Markos has become a multimillionaire, while poor Dave hasn't Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #166

Oh people have thought about it. Especially since when he began sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #176

Did you know this sabrina? Autumn Nov 2012 #256

I know, it blew a lot of us away when we found that out also Autumn. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #266

That sure does explain a lot. Autumn Nov 2012 #270

Kos answers to a higher authority... Octafish Nov 2012 #204

Well I'll be damned. How about that. Autumn Nov 2012 #240

Wow! MelissaB Nov 2012 #241

Is that verified???? That should be a stand alone OP since Autumn Nov 2012 #245

The page has at least one error...George Walker Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut. Octafish Nov 2012 #248

Yes they do. They are also the inventors, or at least the promoters of sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #269

That he gets away with it shows whose side he's on. Octafish Nov 2012 #285

Right on. Thanks. (nt) enough Nov 2012 #94

K & R AzDar Nov 2012 #95

Thank you Willy T. Kicking. n/t Hotler Nov 2012 #96

Amazing that newbies are trying to dictate this board. Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #98

It's not just 'newbies" my friend. 99Forever Nov 2012 #207

True, but they are still in the minority, so there is that! sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #298

Approve! blackspade Nov 2012 #99

One additional "oddity" -- Some conspiratorial Repugs now push the false meme ... HuckleB Nov 2012 #100

*Exactly* so. And it fancies itself an "Underground" still, too. villager Nov 2012 #101

As a charter (and founding) member of the Grassy Knoll Society ,,, TahitiNut Nov 2012 #105

Ah, good old LIHOP. byronius Nov 2012 #107

Rock On, WillyT! CrazyOrangeCat Nov 2012 #114

Agree...enough with the hectoring Iwillnevergiveup Nov 2012 #117

Well said! If for nothing else than for Andy...we can not forget and we must be vigilant emsimon33 Nov 2012 #123

new to DU leanforward Nov 2012 #124

No one is telling anyone to shut up about fraudulent voting. randome Nov 2012 #129

Curiouser & Curiouser Caretha Nov 2012 #209

You are correct. I had my terms wrong. randome Nov 2012 #224

And a hearty welcome to DU! n/t truedelphi Nov 2012 #190

Where in the hell is Mad Hound? The Hound has been quiet of late. Wil, you're right, no one should bluestate10 Nov 2012 #126

You really nailed it, WillyT... BRAVO!! ailsagirl Nov 2012 #130

You tell 'em FailureToCommunicate Nov 2012 #134

Agree. I have been here since 04 although LukeFL Nov 2012 #136

Those who make claims should evidence. NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #137

I'm with you! garthranzz Nov 2012 #140

well here`s my.... madrchsod Nov 2012 #141

k&r... spanone Nov 2012 #144

Agreed. K & R davidthegnome Nov 2012 #145

But if you can't prove it, you aren't even allowed to think it. Cobalt Violet Nov 2012 #151

You can't prove that. byronius Nov 2012 #154

But IT'S NADER'S FAULT!!! OnyxCollie Nov 2012 #158

Darn right...if you can't abide discussions of potential election fraud... farmbo Nov 2012 #160

meh Drunken Irishman Nov 2012 #161

We didn't need Ohio, so it's not an either / or situation bettyellen Nov 2012 #179

And that's another major flaw... Drunken Irishman Nov 2012 #184

I believe they were talking about three states but Ohio bettyellen Nov 2012 #185

I think this site was actually heree during the 2000 election season. beyurslf Nov 2012 #163

What an inconvenient observation. n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #164

Hear Hear k/r thank you Tribetime Nov 2012 #165

Leave symbols to the SIMPLE minded. Fearless Nov 2012 #168

K&R! Lugnut Nov 2012 #170

K&R laundry_queen Nov 2012 #172

WillyT? Zorra Nov 2012 #173

Well said, WillyT, well said. suffragette Nov 2012 #178

2012 WAS stolen, by GOP gerrymandering of congressional districts. Sirveri Nov 2012 #187

Very good point. After all, there was more than one election truedelphi Nov 2012 #191

that's generally how it works. Rig it so you always win, then keep rigging it. Sirveri Nov 2012 #197

254th KnR. Yeah, those were the days Hekate Nov 2012 #188

If anyone can get into the early2003 Archives,there's a long thread on voting system integrity flaws Hekate Nov 2012 #193

It would be wonderful if you made this an OP (if you haven't already). antigone382 Nov 2012 #274

Thank you, well said! Here's the thing I don't get . . . markpkessinger Nov 2012 #194

Here's the thing that I don't get. gkhouston Nov 2012 #237

and that's how and why I found it. onethatcares Nov 2012 #196

I actually think we should push this meme PuraVidaDreamin Nov 2012 #198

Du was a very different place back then. JVS Nov 2012 #199

I think it's more likely than not Rove had something up his sleeve. Ganja Ninja Nov 2012 #200

Thanks, Willie Berlum Nov 2012 #201

Even if I don't agree, you have the right to say it here. That's what makes DU worth keeping! leveymg Nov 2012 #202

HUGE k&r Willy! TheUnspeakable Nov 2012 #203

Tell it! Tutonic Nov 2012 #205

Thank You, n/t CRH Nov 2012 #206

The real massive threat Augiedog Nov 2012 #208

unanimous response to a stupid alert Demonaut Nov 2012 #210

Thanks For The Heads-Up, Demonaut !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #294

you're welcome, I thought you should know only after I saw it was unanimous Demonaut Nov 2012 #297

K&R x a million. 99Forever Nov 2012 #212

K & R Willy T lonestarnot Nov 2012 #219

love you WillyT!! nashville_brook Nov 2012 #225

Rec # 325 JustAnotherGen Nov 2012 #227

5 to 4 Octafish Nov 2012 #228

That's not a good reason to imagine that the Rs have tried to steal stopbush Nov 2012 #229

WillyT! whatchamacallit Nov 2012 #230

Can we please differentiate... gcomeau Nov 2012 #233

No, ProSense Nov 2012 #236

Ah, silly me. -eom gcomeau Nov 2012 #249

It isn't the claim that is what has people scratching their heads. That would sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #288

What do you mean when you say, "but in the way they had hoped." Major Hogwash Nov 2012 #290

Sorry, I meant 'NOT in the way they had hoped'! sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #301

Yes, of course, the conspiracy of DUers to deny you your optimism. randome Nov 2012 #292

I want to BELIEVE nothing. I want to KNOW why sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #296

+1 "Especially observing WHO is the most upset. Same old players. Zorra Nov 2012 #295

Excellent, excellent post Zorra. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #300

"I guess what it means is that the Third Way has succeeded in infiltrating Zorra Nov 2012 #304

I received an anonymous email saying a small number of DUers need to be suppressed victims. great white snark Nov 2012 #235

K&R. Of course it was. woo me with science Nov 2012 #239

I dearly appreciate this OP! arthritisR_US Nov 2012 #242

amen...from an old-time evilduer...n/t BlueCollar Nov 2012 #244

WILLYT ROCKS!!!! warrprayer Nov 2012 #250

No. 361 K&R! midnight Nov 2012 #251

Ralph Nader perpetuated the single greatest lie on America. NO Gore & Bush were NOT the same graham4anything Nov 2012 #252

Who's telling you to shut up? Scootaloo Nov 2012 #254

gotta read the thread, Scooty! warrprayer Nov 2012 #260

Jesus christ. Scootaloo Nov 2012 #261

It will be worth it warrprayer Nov 2012 #263

great post! & let's not forget MIchael Connell, Rep IT specialist about to give testimony, who died Bill USA Nov 2012 #255

RIP Andy! sellitman Nov 2012 #258

Many of us Johnny Come Latelys warrprayer Nov 2012 #259

Andy's story is wrapped up in our hatred for electronic voting machines and is an important one Hekate Nov 2012 #268

Here is a good start sellitman Nov 2012 #293

I'm very sorry warrprayer Nov 2012 #302

K&R! redqueen Nov 2012 #265

Election theft deniers are similar to Climate Change deniers Doctor_J Nov 2012 #271

Exactly! Kos is an election fraud denier who banned any discussion of it sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #277

You have to believe that 8-10 swing state Repuke governors independently Doctor_J Nov 2012 #279

And lettuce not forget the previous site was founded over a stolen erection. RedCloud Nov 2012 #272

Hugs and <3 to you, Willy T! n/t Duval Nov 2012 #275

Thank you for saying this. Marrah_G Nov 2012 #276

And I was conceived as a result of a late night drunk bender jberryhill Nov 2012 #278

K&R HopeHoops Nov 2012 #303